Are Women "The New Men?"

[MsHeartBeat]

I have to ask because of the vast number of letters that are submitted for advice that have women

1 )  asking men out
2 )  wanting more sex than men do
3 )  cheating on men
4 )  making more money than men
5 )  dating more women than men do
6 )  chasing after men
7 )  holding down 2 jobs while the man sits at home
8 )  buying the men gifts and trinkets while he gets her nothing
9 )  paying HIS bills

So what makes a man a man these days, if women are doing all the things we traditionally view as male?  Are women the new men?

[philnation]

Shoot, when I read books like Unhooked Generation (the last book I read) or the one I'm currently reading, Unhooked, I'm almost ready to ask the same question!  It's like young girls/women today have taken this "let's date like a man" (whatever that's supposed to mean) to an extreme.  Although those books really only talk about No. 2 on MsH's list (and the related mindset of having no-strings-attached casual sex), that's a big one and often the main behavior that women who speak of "dating like a man" think of when they say that.

[devineone]

I think somewhere within in the last 30 years with the tail end of Generation X and Generation Next, Men have been placed on a pedestal and declared the “prize to be won”.  The knowlege that too many women and not enough men has gone to guys head and they have a sense of entitlement toward women which precludes them from making any honest effort to be worthy of them.  Nowadays women will do just about anything to get a man and hold on to him because competition is fierce.  They know it and so does the guy.  Women have in some ways become the new man and that’s not a good thing.

Then you have shows like Sex in the City which has influenced woman and in some ways men.  This show was wildly popular and accepted and it really changed the way a lot of people date and think in the single world.  If a woman has standards nowadays, guys and girls look at her as if she is a prude.  If a woman say’s no to sex and grabbing and groping with a guy, he’ll shrug his shoulder and mentally next her, because there is always a woman who will give him what he wants with the least amount of effort on his part.

The bar has been lowered and it’s accepted to be OK to “Date like a man as the Samantha character on that show did.  This makes it harder for women who don’t date like a man.  I feel bad for my nieces.  I wonder what they will encounter as they grow up to become adult women because both of their parents are raising them to behave like ladies and to have standards.

Most Guys aren’t looking for committed relationships, they are looking for sexual hookups and those are all too easy, so women have adjusted their game plan to accommodate this.  FWB’s have become the norm.  Guys will say in a minute, "Just because we have sex, don’t mean I want you or anything.  I don’t know if I’m ready for a relationship”.  But they sure as heck are ready for sex on their terms.  These are the majority of behaviors and choices that a lot of women looking for decent relationships are faced with nowadays so they take what they can get, then assume roles and responsibilities beyond what they should, because they have lowered their standards and the guys are seen as the prize they have to work to keep.  It’s pretty messed up because the guys have somehow gotten into the drivers seat and remained there.

I’ve gone out on dates with guys (first dates), and they are expecting sex on the first date and will just blatantly ask for it.  They’ll also just grab me and attempt to get sexual all on the first date as though it’s their due for taking me out! (This happened yet again as recently as last week when I went out on a first date! 
I'm starting to wonder if I have "SEX" written in bold letters on my forehead.)
And it was with someone I had known who came off as a gentleman before the date.  
Back to the drawing board again.

Used to be once upon a time, this type of behavior was frowned on.  The girls knew the so called bad guys, the playas and if they messed around with them, then they knew what they were going to get.  Nowadays, you’ve got the majority of guys acting like playas and expecting women to go along with it.   A lot of guys will ask a girl out, go through the motions of being interested, only for the woman to find out, it is just a ruse because he is expecting sex because he took her out on one date.  Whatever happened to romance?  Nope, lost concept.  Guys don’t do that.  Everything is done with the purpose of getting sex, a means to an end.  Not with the purpose of, them genuinely liking the woman they are spending time with and wanted to do something romantic and nice because they enjoyed their company. 

It seems that as it pertains to dating and relationships, we are living in a generation of some women who have taken on some of the behaviors you listed Ms. HB in order to have somebody rather than being alone. They have adjusted to the social times we live in because of the type of men they are encountering. I suppose in the next few years you’ll go to the museum and see the “gentleman” and the "lady" right up there enclosed in the glass display next to the other fossils as these specimen are becoming extinct.

Though I don't exactly agree with everything he's written, I think Rabbi Shmuley Boteach had some insightful points when he wrote several articles on relationships titled How Premature sex kills off romance, Why women are abandoning men, and Men like Donald Trump who don't know how to honor women are not heroes.  I’ve excerpted several paragraphs from a mixture of those articles.

"The effect of women being placed on a pedestal was that men had to work hard to be thought worthy of a woman. Winning a damsel was a lifelong pursuit and a man would spend a lifetime in refinement of his character in order to win a woman

In more traditional times, couples "courted." That civilized practice placed the onus on the man to become worthy of a woman. He would stop by a woman's house and present his card. She would determine if she would receive him. He therefore had to excel in the art of "gentlemanliness" and stand above his peers if he was to be noticed. (He also had to get past her mother, which involved a level of scrutiny that only the most refined specimens of manhood could pass.)

Dating in general nowadays is strongly weighted in favor of guys, the entire process has been reversed. It is now the woman who must go to gym, diet, and paint her face in order that she be noticed at a party or a disco. Many women feel humiliated by the experience of standing around with a drink in their hand hoping, firstly, that they'll outshine the other women present and second, that a guy will be confident enough to come over and say hello. 

In the West, the disparagement and defamation of women is fostering a generation of loutish and unrefined men who have no incentive to become gentlemen. With women being so significantly devalued, and with men being subtly trained to look down at women as worthless playthings created for naught but their entertainment and pleasure, men are making little effort to ennoble their character in order to be worthy of a woman. A generation of two-timing and commitment-phobic men have utterly forgotten how to honor a woman and Western women are letting all of this happen.

The rule today is that a man should have a reputation as a complete womanizer and still hook a girlfriend. What woman 40 years ago would have tolerated a man dating her for four or five years without popping the question? Where in society would it have been acceptable for a man to string a woman along without committing himself to her? And where were there any women dumb enough, or insecure enough, to accept such a rotten deal?

When will we realize that the denigration of women not only harms a specific woman or group of women, but it also spirals out to irrevocably scar society at large? And when will we be mature enough to promote as the real success stories not the men who can afford to buy pretty models a mink coat, but rather the husband of 40 years who still treats his wife like a queen?

The net result is that the average man has no idea of how to please a woman. He doesn't even know how to talk to her. On a date he uses compliments not to make her light up, but to make her lie down. After marriage his purpose is not to attend to her emotional needs but to get her to attend to his domestic wants, as she slowly becomes his maid

There are strong consequences for a world that has no respect for women and women who have little respect for themselves. With the neutralization of women as a nurturing and softening force, the world is becoming more aggressive, more ruthlessly ambitious, less compassionate and more insecure. It is a world of harsh judgment, bereft of gentle creatures to soothe the pain. It is a world of sharp elbows rather than soft hearts, spiked shoes rather than outstretched hands"

[cool breeze]

Are women the new men? Given these sorry so-called excuses that pass for "men" nowadays, I'd have to say yes.. But women still find it okay to date and sleep with these losers so they only have themselves to blame..

All women have to do to regain their rightful place is to chuck all that "date like a man nonsense" in the garbage..Where, oh where are all these playas and macks gonna go if 90% of the women decide that FWB, FBs are no longer acceptable? Overseas? Sure..To Brazil, maybe? Right..Don't believe the hype..

Most of these jokers wouldn't know where to get a passport, let alone how to use one..

The truth be told: WOMEN STILL CHOOSE THE MEN.  NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND. In other words, men still have to approach and sell themselves--women can still define what they want in a man and demand that men meet those standards..Those men that don't, can't or won't? NEXT..Plenty of fish in the sea, you know..

Women have fallen for the okey-doke since the so-called sexual revolution..I look back at those days and wonder how women could give up all the perks and powers they had in order to "date like men"..Who made that call? How in the hell did that seem like a good idea?

I'm a man and I'm man enough to say that men have never nor will they ever, want any woman who "dates like a man" for anything other than for a sexual relationship..PERIOD..There are exceptions to be sure, but they are in the minority..Women who date like men aren't "Wifey" material..They don't get taken home to meet the parents..

And where are the women with the guts to say to all the other ladies out there that hey, this shyt ain't working y'all..I mean, women and children are so devalued in society now--it's just unreal..

It's too late now, however, as women are going around talking about how they have superior sex drives and stamina and stuff..Things men like sailors used to brag and boast about to attract women..Now ask yourselves, what man wants a woman who's got a mouth and tattoos like a sailor? Not many, ie..NONE..

These modern women are rougher and tougher than I am..I picked my nephew up from school friday and there were women out there with more tattoos than AI and Dennis Rodman combined..Hey, not a feminine look if you know what I mean..And like it or not, it's not a look the majority of society considers classy..Most people think trailer parks and "Jerry Springer" when they see folks with too much ink--male or female..

If I was a woman, I'd never get a tattoo..Unless I was a ninja or a Jedi..

But I'm just an old fashioned country bumpkin trying to make it in a modern world..Maybe I'm the crazy one..I still have a landline telephone..

[philnation]

Most Guys aren’t looking for committed relationships, they are looking for sexual hookups and those are all too easy, so women have adjusted their game plan to accommodate this.  FWB’s have become the norm.

And this has consequences for those of us who want committed relationships.  We run into women who are just looking for sexual hookups, or ones who don't know how to act when they find a guy who isn't looking to hop in the sack ASAP and thus do everything to self-destruct things, perhaps sub-consciously so.  We run into ones who ridicule us because we're looking for something better than just a sexual hookup.  We run into women who don't want a relationship because she thinks it's an either/or decision between a relationship and school/career.

Or, when we find a woman who's looking for more than just a roll in the hay, she's already been around the block and then some, and might even have a kid or two or an STD.

Then we also don't know what anything means anymore.  It used to be that getting a lady's number meant something, or that spending days/nights out with a fair amount of flirting and/or other little advances meant there was mutual interest; but now, lots of women will do those things and perhaps more, and the guy is just a "friend".  If the guy tells said woman how he feels, it's the end of the friendship.  Women insist on the man doing the chasing and at most giving little hints to indicate interest and see if he approaches; but because we've seen women do more than that and then say they don't want a relationship and weren't signaling a desire for one, we don't think they're showing any kind of interest.

Used to be once upon a time, this type of behavior was frowned on.  The girls knew the so called bad guys, the playas and if they messed around with them, then they knew what they were going to get.  Nowadays, you’ve got the majority of guys acting like playas and expecting women to go along with it.   A lot of guys will ask a girl out, go through the motions of being interested, only for the woman to find out, it is just a ruse because he is expecting sex because he took her out on one date.  Whatever happened to romance?  Nope, lost concept.  Guys don’t do that.

Lots of women don't do that, either.

We have to stop with this "guys just want sex, women all want relationships" thing if we're going to realize the way things are nowadays.  It's not that simple.  Lots of women just want sex and nothing to do with a relationship nowadays; if I had a penny for every woman who said she doesn't want a relationship because she's focused on school or her career, I could pay off my mortgage tomorrow.

I'm 32 years old and want to be married with a family one day.  I'm abstinent until marriage.  In the meantime, I've dated a woman who hoped to take away my virginity and nothing more, another one who expressed a desire to consummate the relationship soon before our second date, another who cheated one me, and I was even the "other man" once (unknowingly at the time, but I found out a couple of weeks later).  I've been told more times than I care to admit that a woman who showed more than a few signs of interest wanted nothing more than friendship with me.  And I've not pursued a few women because I could see cases like the first two I just alluded to coming to pass if I did.

So we have to stop with this nonsense that men are leading the way with the sorry state of romantic relationships today.  Women are every bit as responsible for it and frankly, have shown themselves to be every bit as trifling, too.

And CB said nothing but truth.

[devineone]

Great post Coolbreeze. 
I'm one of those genteel born and breed southern Ladies.  I declare I'm just as appalled as you are about the attitude and behaviors of these modern women and men.
It makes it that much harder for a lady like me. 

Also I'd like to add I like how you posted your thoughts without attempting to put down other thoughts.  You really show how much of a gentleman you are in your posts. 

[devineone]

...Lots of women don't do that, either.
....We have to stop with this "guys just want sex, women all want relationships" thing if we're going to realize the way things are nowadays.  if I had a penny for every woman who said she doesn't want a relationship because she's focused on school or her career, I could pay off my mortgage tomorrow.
So we have to stop with this nonsense that men are leading the way with the sorry state of romantic relationships today.  Women are every bit as responsible for it and frankly, have shown themselves to be every bit as trifling, too.

Regarding your thoughts about women have to "stop the nonsense that men are leading the way with the sorry state of romantic relationships today... I'm not sure if you are referring to the post that I wrote, and if you are why dismiss it and call it nonsense?  I am writing based on "my experiences" as a woman and you are posting based on "your experiences" as a man.  We both have our individual experiences and they can both be valid.  You don't have to engage in the argumentum ad personam tactic in an attempt to invalidate my thoughts and my posts to make your points. We're all sharing and learning here and it's not about one-upmanship or the "So women do/or don't do this too" mentality".  When you say this, what point are you making?  Unacceptable behavior by both sexes is just that unacceptable and it makes it harder for people who are actually looking for "quality people to date and have a relationship with that person."

I'm not like any of those women you described in your experiences and my post isn't nonsensical it's factual and based on "my current experiences".  Since you haven't walked in my dating shoes, how can you make that judgment about "my experiences"? How can you belittle my thoughts? 

You mentioned if you had a penny for every woman etc... Perhaps as CB said, women still choose the man, however I'd like to add that men choose the woman they want to go after.  If you're going after women who are focused on career and school then that's what you're going to most likely get, women who aren't ready to commit to anything serious because that's where they are in their lives at that point.   I ended an engagement at a certain point in my life because I wasn't ready to commit, I had other priorities but I'm not at that point anymore.  You could also be going after emotionally immature women.  I admit I wasn't emotionally mature in a lot of ways in my 20's.  I look back and cringe for myself.

It's the same for a woman who is looking for a LTR but is going after playas, committment phobics, career focused workaholics then that is what she's going to get.  Women sometimes think that "they'll be the one to "change' this person because they are special, not realizing that the other girls he was with could have been special too, it's just the guy.
100 "right women won't make a "wrong" guy act right the same as 100 "right men" won't make a "wrong girl" act right either.  So we have to take responsibility for who we "choose" to date.

I've been asked out by guys who don't come across as obvious playas.  So I don't  see that side of them until after the date in some cases as I mentioned in the "touchy feely topic".

In going back and looking at CB's post, he seems to come across as a gentleman who advocates for women, not put them down even when he is chastising women for their own negative behavior as he does in this topic.  There is a huge difference in the tone of his posts and some of other male posters.  Sadly some men out there don't reflect CB's attitude towards women.  Heck many of them come off as if they don't even "like women" let alone being capable of loving and respecting them and their opinions.

I found it interesting in looking back at certain thread topics how some guys do think regarding their attitude and approach to dating.  (Not all but some).  These are just a few quotes from male posters from this forum taken from the "Beware of the pitfalls of a Rich woman".  Not exactly what I'd called romantic thoughts about women, in fact they come across as downright contemptuous, misogynous and disrespectful towards women in general.  Did the posters have to project this tone and attitude to make their point?  How they wrote what they said resonates as loudly if not louder than the points they were making. Even though the topic was different these post reflect the mindset of how certain men think in terms of dating and romance when they interact with women which is why I excerpted them into this thread.

http://www.askheartbeat.com/talksmack/index.php/topic,2272.30.html

Men use women in relationships.  Women use men in relationships.  Men use men in relationships.  Women use women in relationships.  There is no difference in volume or degree. the only differences are what tools each individual has at their disposal to play the game, and what each wants from others.  Supply and demand.  All people --no, all animals--(at least those with any sense) use whatever means they have at their disposal to get what they want.  It's not necessarily nefarious, it just is what it is.

And if he's paying for dates, guess what he's after?   BINGO!  Pucci!  Maybe not tonight, maybe not Saturday night, but oh yes, I am after it.  And if you ain't trying to give it up, I will take my date-paying for self to someone who will.  Supply and demand.  Why pay more than the going rate? 

Chris Rock said men want food, sex and silence.  Feed me, f**k me and STFU.  To whoever brought up call girls--call girls supply that.  Of men who pay for sex, most don't pay for the sex per se, they pay for the woman to LEAVE after the sex.  No strings.  No shopping for window treatments on weekends, or visits to the in-laws', or anything else.  A service. 

Another newsflash to those women who think that there is something special about them by virtue of that thing between their legs---that they can control a man or keep him or whatever because "it's so gooood."   It is good, it's pucci.  But it's not special.  They're all pretty much the same.

http://www.askheartbeat.com/talksmack/index.php/topic,2272.45.html

HAHAHAHAHA!! They still think the pusci equals entitlements!! GUESS WHAT? NOPE!!!

It's 2008!!! Your pusci entitlement coupons are EXPIRED!!!!

[philnation]

...Lots of women don't do that, either.
....We have to stop with this "guys just want sex, women all want relationships" thing if we're going to realize the way things are nowadays.  if I had a penny for every woman who said she doesn't want a relationship because she's focused on school or her career, I could pay off my mortgage tomorrow.
So we have to stop with this nonsense that men are leading the way with the sorry state of romantic relationships today.  Women are every bit as responsible for it and frankly, have shown themselves to be every bit as trifling, too.

Regarding your thoughts about women have to "stop the nonsense that men are leading the way with the sorry state of romantic relationships today... I'm not sure if you are referring to the post that I wrote, and if you are why dismiss it and call it nonsense?

It was a general comment, although your post is relevant to it.  Your post is just like so much discourse on the matter - men just want sex, women want relationships, men are responsible for all the issues and women are angels when it comes to dating and relationships.  That's how it came off.  Note that you went into this on a thread about women's actions in dating.

Why is it nonsense?  Because it's not a reflection of reality.  This is a thread focused on the actions of women, yet the majority of that post took issue with the actions of men!  The message is, like it is in most public discourse on the subject matter, that men are to be held accountable, but not women - they're just helpless victims of the games men play.

We're all sharing and learning here and it's not about one-upmanship or the "So women do/or don't do this too" mentality".  When you say this what point are you making?  Unacceptable behavior by both sexes is just that unacceptable and it makes it harder for people who are actually looking for "quality people to date and have a relationship with that person."

The point is that while it may be just as unacceptable, common discourse on the matter would have us believe otherwise.  There is no accountability for women in all of this.  Remember, this is a thread about the behavior of women, and all of a sudden it turned into the behavior of men.  If that doesn't prove that folks don't want accountability for women, I don't know what will.

I'm not like any of those women you described in your experiences and my post isn't nonsensical it's factual and based on "my current experiences".  Since you haven't walked in my dating shoes, how can you make that judgment about "my experiences"? How can you belittle my thoughts? 

Perhaps the same way you can turn your "current experiences" into broader statements like you did in that post.  You didn't state that these are the men you've come across; you said (emphasis mine):

Most Guys aren’t looking for committed relationships, they are looking for sexual hookups and those are all too easy, so women have adjusted their game plan to accommodate this.  FWB’s have become the norm.  Guys will say in a minute, "Just because we have sex, don’t mean I want you or anything.  I don’t know if I’m ready for a relationship”.  But they sure as heck are ready for sex on their terms.
...
Nowadays, you’ve got the majority of guys acting like playas and expecting women to go along with it.   A lot of guys will ask a girl out, go through the motions of being interested, only for the woman to find out, it is just a ruse because he is expecting sex because he took her out on one date.  Whatever happened to romance?  Nope, lost concept.  Guys don’t do that.

Those look like pretty general comments to me, as opposed to examples of your experiences.  I'm certainly not an English major (you know we engineers can't write ), but when I read "Most guys", I don't take that to mean "most guys that I know" or "most guys that I have come across", especially when separate paragraphs delve into personal experience.

And by the way, I'm not like any of these men you described, either - but that didn't stop you from making these comments that border on blanket statements.  (Additionally, let the record show that I never said you're like any of the women I described.)

You mentioned if you had a penny for every woman ect... perhaps as CB said, women still choose the man.  However I'd like to add that men choose the woman they want to go after.

No need to add it - men like myself are already reminded of it all the time.  Remember, common discourse on this subject is to blame men for everything - men only want sex, and when a man actually wants a relationship but has trouble finding a quality mate, it's still the man's fault because he chooses who he pursues.  Women have no responsibility.

Rather nice how that works out, isn't it?  I mean, we could just as easily turn the tables and say that the women choose to go out with and sleep with those men who only want sex, but saying that would be too much like right.  We have to blame the man.

Just about anything in this realm is usually spun to go against men.  For example, take your point about going after women who are focused on school or career.  Sure, if I go after them I'm not likely to find women ready to commit to anything; but if I don't go after such women, the spin is that I'm "intimidated by an intelligent or strong woman" or that I "don't like women with ambition".  The man can't win for losing, basically.

(I might add, I brought that point up not because I've pursued many such women - while I've pursued a few, the sentiment that it's either a relationship or school/career is one I've come across numerous times even from women I have no interest in whatsoever, enough that it bears mentioning as a trend.)

In going back and looking at CB's post, he seems to come across as a gentleman who advocates for women, not put them down even when he is chastising women for their own negative behavior as he does in this topic.  There is a huge difference in the tone of his posts and some of other male posters.  Sadly some men out there don't reflect CB's attitude towards women.  Heck many of them come off as if they don't even "like women" let alone being capable of loving or respecting them or their opinions.

No more than the women who talk about how "men are dogs" or "men just want sex" come off as if they don't even like men.  Funny, though, I never see anyone say that about them.  (Again, that's a general comment.)

Women can take issue with men, even flat-out bash them, and in doing so they get lots of "Amens", hugs and support from other women.  But let a man take issue with the actions of women in the "dating game" and want accountability on their end as well, and he never hears the end of it.  And so the sorry state of romantic relationships continues without improvement.

[devineone]

You know Phil,
I could point some glaring things out to you that you've written that are basically well unreasonable.  But I won't do it, you wouldn't see it anyway and even if you did, you'd refuse to concede the point.  You've taken everything that I've written and you got one thing out of it.  Male Bashing and that's all.  Whatever... think what you want to think whatever floats your boat and makes you happy.
 
I'm not going to get into a back and forth with you. It would be an exercise in futility.  Your mind is already focused on how you want to see things and that's that.  I'm not going to explain or defend myself to someone who only sees his own viewpoints and interprets things (at least in this context), one way.  What you've just posted, reflects far more of your own attitude and where you're coming from with regards to women than what I've written or where I'm coming from.  To you, anything a woman says that critiques a guy's actions (notice I said actions), you'll view it as male bashing. 

You've got a chip on your shoulder where women are concerned, and that comes through loudly and clearly in your posts.  I'm sure you'll come back and deny it and then say that I have a chip on my shoulder where men are concerned because I wrote negative things about guys.  (Even though you see the proof of how some guys think about women in the quoted exerpts in my posts).

At any rate, I've got a date tonight with a guy that a mutual friend has set me up with.  Someone I've known in a professional sense.  We're going to dinner and a jazz club.   My so called male bashing hasn't made me bitter or a man hater, I still "like guys" and enjoy their company and look forward to being with a guy who is right for me and sharing all of me with him. 

[philnation]

Q.E.D.

[The Shepherd]

So what makes a man a man these days, if women are doing all the things we traditionally view as male?  Are women the new men?

It's an odd time that we live in. Radical feminism has so skewed the mentalities of both genders that we can no longer hold onto the old definitions of what qualities constitute a "man" and a "woman". The main thrust of the feminist movement was creating social equality with men. Well, many of the examples given are results of that quest for equality. Whether it's positive or negative, it is social change that cannot be reversed. You have to accept the good and the bad of freedom, and it's the same with equality.

By the way, Devineone, you are my very favorite poster.

[devineone]

It's an odd time that we live in. Radical feminism has so skewed the mentalities of both genders that we can no longer hold onto the old definitions of what qualities constitute a "man" and a "woman". The main thrust of the feminist movement was creating social equality with men. Well, many of the examples given are results of that quest for equality. Whether it's positive or negative, it is social change that cannot be reversed. You have to accept the good and the bad of freedom, and it's the same with equality.

By the way, Devineone, you are my very favorite poster.

Thanks Shepherd.  Your posts are most insightful and thought provoking.  I'm glad you're back posting.
Shep, I thought the women's movement of the 60's and into the 70's  to my understanding was to create equal rights in many ways which mainly included equal rights in the work place.  Alongside this movement there was the invention of the BCP in the 60's.  This invention freed women up to be able to control when they could have children.  However it also brought this new freedom, "sexual freedom.  Now that women didn't have to worry about getting pregnant, they could engage in sex more freely the way men do.  Men went along for the ride.  However sexual freedom shouldn't have eroded men from acting as gentleman and women from acting as ladies but as you said, the good with the bad.  There is a price to pay with certain freedoms.  It does show that the character of a person comes not when restrictions are in place, but how well they hold to their character when they are freed of those restrictions.  The modern dating world has shown that quality character traits have taken a nose dive and none of it excuses inexcusable behavior from both sexes in how they interact towards one another; just because they can, doesn't mean they should.


It's too bad that radical feminism is the main thing that people think of when they think of the women's movement.  There are many laws that came to be in place because women stood up to fight for their rights, rights that men weren't going to just grant to women out of fairness.  The PDA, Pregnancy Discrimination Act is a major act that came out of women's groups standing up and fighting for this right that didn't get passed until the late 70's.  Prior to that, women could get fired from their job if they got pregnant and women could be denied employment opportunities if they were pregnant or planning to become pregnant.
That's huge!   But all people seem to dwell on is the radical feminist movement.