The Police Shooting of Oscar Grant

[cool breeze]

Man, some of these cops are wound wayyyy too tight..That was a female..Not really a threat to him at all..He just wanted to kick some azz because he was the supposed "authority figure" that was being disobeyed..But..It wasn't some 200 pound UFC Fighter: It was a 15 year old female..A young girl..If I was in his shoes and that same thing happened to me, the most I would have done was throw her shoe back in the cell..Loser..

And while he's supposed to be a "man", clearly his actions show that he's a little punk..Now, if it were my kid, his azz had better hope that there is plenty of kevlar available because I would make sure his punk azz had plenty of bullets comin' his way..

[devineone]

Man, some of these cops are wound wayyyy too tight..That was a female..Not really a threat to him at all..He just wanted to kick some azz because he was the supposed "authority figure" that was being disobeyed..But..It wasn't some 200 pound UFC Fighter: It was a 15 year old female..A young girl..If I was in his shoes and that same thing happened to me, the most I would have done was throw her shoe back in the cell..Loser..

And while he's supposed to be a "man", clearly his actions show that he's a little punk..Now, if it were my kid, his azz had better hope that there is plenty of kevlar available because I would make sure his punk azz had plenty of bullets comin' his way..

Hey CB, didn't you say you got sidetracked into law enforcement?  Did you (not personally) experience or witness this type of thing?  Yes it does seem as though this law enforcement officer used undue force.  I realize that a few seconds of video doesn't tell the whole story, however as an officer, he knows he's dealing with a rebellious "lippy' teen so he should be cognizant of that at all times, and let the stuff flowing out of her mouth 'roll off him'.  I read that this police officer previously shot and killed two people in the line of duty and this was proven to be 'justified' but after watching this video of him in action, I have to wonder if he wasn't a bit 'trigger happy'.

I have friends who are teachers and man if they got pissed off like this every time some punk azz kid sassed off at them, they would have lost their jobs years ago.  They learn coping and discipline skills and know how to deal with kids like this.
 
This man is the "adult", that girl was the "kid", so he should be 'adult' enough' to handle this situation without reverting to undue violence.  Nothing bothers someone more, when they are behaving like a punk, and you just 'ignore them...kids especially can't stand that.  She got just what she wanted from him.  She provoked him enough to get a rise out of him and now 'his' story' is making front page news and he is risking his livelihood  all behind some punk teenager who should be in school anyway and not somewhere hijacking cars.  He lost a potential teachable moment, violence just doesn't work when you're dealing with rebellious, out of control teenagers.

I think these law enforcement officers should be made to take the same type of training that public school teachers take, training in discipline and how to handle their emotions and how to handle rebellious kids.  Cops can't just let themselves fly off the handle like that.

[devineone]

I'm not saying I believe anything. I'm saying I KNOW that most kids interact w/ more than just criminals on a fairly regular basis.  They see positive role models on a regular basis

What kind of 'interaction' do these kids have with the positive people they 'see' everyday?
I "see and interact" with people all of the time, but that doesn't mean that seeing and interacting with them automatically causes an influential positive impact on my life.

What I see happening is a lot of kids are NOT ENGAGED in the educational process & eventually go down alternate paths.

What are some factors that are contributing to these kids not being engaged in the educational process? What are some solutions/ideas you have (that doesn't include talking) that can motivate these kids to become 'engaged' in the educational process?

I was working FULL TIME in the school system in the hood as recently as 3 years ago. Hell, I still live in the hood.  And regardless of the various backgrounds many of these kids come from (some good, some bad ) all those kids saw & talked with me. They all saw & talked to their teachers who were professionals. They say & talked to the principal who ran the school. They saw & talked with other faculty & staff. This also goes for relatives, church members, etc. There are plenty of people who they interact with on a regular basis who don't rob banks & shoot folx @ the movie theaters showing "Notorious".

So all this 'seeing and talking' must not be working, have you thought of something else that you might try that would prove to be more of a success in captivating these at-risk kids and motivating them to want to learn and stay engaged in school?  If simply 'seeing and talking' were so successful then the kids should be more engaged right?  However, just seeing and talking to someone is not enough.  It takes much more work than that, and the people who claim to be concerned about these at-risk kids, are going to have to put more of an effort behind pushing and helping them.  They can't just stop at 'seeing and talking' and think their job is done.  If it were that easy, then we'd have no high-school dropouts right?  All kids would need to do is just 'see and talk' to someone positive and all of their problems would be solved.   We know this is not the case.

Being a mentor takes much more effort than simply 'seeing and talking'.  Legacy if you aren't willing to put your 'effort' into more than 'seeing and talking', then you don't need to be up here on this forum, talking about what black folks need to do to help the internal ills in their community because you, yourself are not doing YOUR part to help the internal ills.  Since I've joined this forum, I've mentioned here and there a few of the actions that I've done to help those who are in need of guidance and I can tell you it would filll up a whole thread topic if I listed everything I've done working with black kids and teens from childhood up until now and it is much more than simply 'seeing and talking'.

there are also some children who are receiving instruction in spite of bad parents who refuse to do what administrators, teachers, pastors, relatives, other adults & authority figures are asking of them.

Before a kid can 'receive instruction', you have to first delve into what is going on with that kid.  Kids who are dealing with outside factors of goodness knows what, are not going to be receptive to learning.  These people you've named need to address what's 'wrong with the kid, before they give instruction for the kid to receive.  Example: a hungry child is not open to learning, a kid who has been abused, physically, emotionally,verbally and sexually can care less about 'receiving instruction'.  Unless these internal issues going on with the particular kid are addressed right alongside with the 'receiving instruction', then this kid will not be open to learning because he is already shut down dealing with his own personal demons.

You know, it's amazing that these kids from challenging backgrounds, homes & neighborhoods can't pay attention in class & perform academically as we'd expect them to but the black community sure has NO ISSUE pumping out basketball & football stars from the same challenging environments..

I said the same thing.  It is amazing how some kids with all sorts of behavioral problems in the regular classroom can come into my music camp and pick up an instrument and learn to play it, thereby engaging academic skills.  If they are learning music, they are learning math, if they are composing lyrics, they are using grammar and English skills.  A skillful instructor will learn to leverage the child's interest and cross subjects so that the kid can know that learning is actually fun!  You bring the learning to the child first, and then the child will go to the learning.  If a kid can shoot pool, he can learn geometry, if he can play cards, he can do math.  Innovative teachers and mentors know how to pique the kids, interest and take the learning to their level and then go from there.  It's all about relating to what the kid knows and taking him to what he doesn't know.  It's called bridging the gap.   

Why is that? Why aren't these same conditions preventing us from creating great athletes? What great athletes are interacting with them so that they can achieve greatness in athletics? Why can't they concentrate in the classroom but they have perfect concentration at the free throw line?

Probably because they have people simply 'talking and seeing' and thinking that's all it takes to engage kids in their education.  Probably because we have backwards people who don't have a clue about learning and development, about instruction, about teaching, about bridging the gap,about really taking the time to work with the kid and it does require TIME, EFFORT, CONSISTENCY, EMOTIONAL INVESTMENT and WORK so that these kids know that someone does really care about them and they start to care and want to succeed.  You have to push them until they can stand on their own and then stand by them so they can still keep standing.  It's an ongoing process, much more than 'seeing and talking'.

Finding people like this who are willing to put that kind of effort into kids, is rare.  We need more than someone just complaining about the problems, we need people who are part of the solution and who are actually working to diligently 'tend that garden' and nurture it so that it will eventually grow and bear fruit tenfold.

Hmmmmm.. Every consider that maybe it's a matter of focus & effort rather than circumstances...

If a kid comes from an environment where they are not nurtured and valued, it IS the environment and their circumstances and those can't be dismissed because they DO Adversely affect learning and cognitive development.  A kid is not going to be interested in learning in school if he is caught up in his circumstances whatever they may be.   If they come from a homelife where education isn't valued, ,then how can they know to value it?  The blind can't lead the blind.  They can't "focus' if they don't know that to focus on.

In other words, I ain't buy the nonsense. Stop making excuses.

If you're going to be on this forum touting about the internal ills of the black community and the youths, I suggest that you go out and pick yourself up some instructional teaching books, some books on pyschology, you need to go to your nearest university and buy some used educational pyschology textbook and stop by and talk to the professors so that you can train yourself on how to 'reach' these kids you 'claim' to be so concerned for.  You don't know enough about how to help kids for you to be talking the noise up in this forum that you talk. Your method of 'seeing and talking' is not enough.  It doesn't even begin to reach troubled youth.   That's like hosing down a lice-infected mangy rabid dog' and then saying, there, I've washed you now go and get better!  You haven't even begun to scratch the surface.  You've just 'hit at the problem'.  You have no clue what you're talking about.

The majority of black men don't need 10 years of direct interaction & mentoring w/ anyone to know that picking up a gun, shooting the clerk while robbing a 7-11 is wrong.

See if you actually had some professional training, then you would realize that the outward act of shooting a 7-11 clerk hides a deeper issue that should have been addressed.  Of course he knows that to shoot someone is wrong, but what else is going on with this kid?  That is why you have so many repeat offenders, the underlying problems are never addressed.  What you need to do is stop talking like you know something about the psyche  of troubled kids because you don't have any training and you don't know.

The majority of these kids know the difference between right & wrong.

Yes they do, but if their circumstances are greater than their moral value system, then right and wrong goes out of the window.  The kid who robs the 7-11 store 'knows' it's wrong, so what makes him do it anyway?  It's not enough to just say, "They know right from wrong", we also have to address, what causes them to go against what they know is right and wrong.  Unless we dig deep enough we will never fully address the root cause for deviant behavior with troubled youths in the black community.  Address the root cause, then the external behavior..i.e. the actual robbery of the store, will go away.  But just addressing the external cause is not enough.

The majority of them have some type of guidance & role model. That's my only point.

And if all of these role models are doing to provide guidance is simply "seeing and talking", then they are not doing all that a true role model can and should do to help troubled black youths.

[devineone]

And while he's supposed to be a "man", clearly his actions show that he's a little punk..Now, if it were my kid, his azz had better hope that there is plenty of kevlar available because I would make sure his punk azz had plenty of bullets comin' his way..

You are right this cop was being a punk CB and had no business losing it on this kid, let alone the fact that she's a girl. 

I'd like to think CB that any kid of yours would be doing something constructive with their life such as being in school getting an education.  They wouldn't be out somewhere hijacking cars and getting in trouble with the law.   You shouldn't have this worry.  You strike me as being a parent who would raise his kid to be better than that.

[da6cents]

Legacy:

I think you have a lot to offer our community. Think about what Devineone is challenging you to do and consider changing your mindset when it comes to our community.

There's a saying that goes something like "Be the change you want to see in the world". Too often we criticize from the outside instead of seeing how we can join in and fill the void. One of the reasons behind my volunteering with the youth mentoring org. I work with is because of something musician and philosopher Albert Schweitzer once said: ""At the point in life where your talents meet the needs of the world is where God wants you to be".

I also felt there were key areas that needed to be addressed that most orgs. were simply missing (like Economics and Hip Hop). So rather than use my life experiences and professional accomplishments as a means of looking at others with contempt, I wanted to use them to inspire and groom the next generation. And like Devineone mentioned it is extremely gratifying. It will also assists you in your own personal development as you truly learn who you are once you've shared so much of yourself with young people eager for guidance and direction.

Give it a try.

Yo Shep - I'll holla in detail about your advice once this community event I'm working on is done (this weekend). Peace.

[Legacy]

http://i33.tinypic.com/73lz53.gif




Shep:

Ok,.. keep pretending that the exceedingly high levels of violent crime in the black community has zero correlation to how the law enforcement will police & sometimes react in certain situations. No one is in favor of people killing unarmed black men but the idea that police are necessarily on a mission to do so (esp when so many of the police in the inner city of some of these major cities are black, latino, etc) or that police always know who the threats are is patently false.

Either way, no point in arguing about it because black folx are going to continue to kill other black folx at alarming rates without any outrage from most people and occasionally a police officer will overreact & kill someone then the entire community will be in a uproar. I think it's misguided but hey, do you.

As for the other issues, lets cut to the chase on one issue right away. Why would I vote for Obama if I was a republican? - LOL Ok, so can we end that bullshyt attempt to cast me into some ideological box? You're better than that. ( I also love the fact that I'm no longer "pro-black" since I want, iono black folx to stop killing each other & stop retarding our own development by disadvantaging ourselves via poor decision making OR that being "pro-black" isn't an ideology in itself but I digress)..

I agreed w/ Obama's position on Iraq & dealing with threats places like Pakistan, Afghanistan, & Iran. I agree with his position on education & energy dependence. I also thought he was the far more competent candidate & he had the ability to give the nation greater hope during what was sure to be a tough time. The man is a leader, period & that's what we needed. Now, I don't agree with everything he doing w/ the economy. However, as I already mentioned, Bush (wait, am I about to criticize a republican? eh gad!) pushed thru a similar stimulus and the US (& other global market which are interconnected) continued to spiral down because it's a free market issue that won't be solved by the government. The markets response to Obama stimulus has been similar. (don't believe me, check the .NYA, .DJI, .IXIC & .INX)

In fact, Clinton, Bush, Greenspan & congress (both parties) played significant role in the housing crisis to being with by deregulating the housing industry (sub-prime loans), deregulating the security industry(credit default swaps or derivatives) & threatening legal action thru the attorney general against lending institutions who were not pushing these loans out to the market.

Credit Default Swaps

Steve Kroft examines the complicated financial instruments known as credit default swaps and the central role they are playing in the unfolding economic crisis.

October 27, 2008
http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=4546583n%3fsource=search_video


So no, I don't think that politicians know shyt about economics which is evidenced by our +10 trillion dollar deficit (thanks congress!) which has grown by about 8 trillion since the mid 80s. As for FDR, economists are saying that his policies PROLONGED the great depression.

http://newsroom.ucla.edu/portal/ucla/FDR-s-Policies-Prolonged-Depression-5409.aspx?RelNum=5409

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123353276749137485.html

Listen guy, do you. Believe whatever makes you feel good & sleep at night. But honestly, I don't have the time nor desire to engage in frivolous debates about positions of mine that you can't change or vice versa. I got class 2 nights a week & homework, quizzes, case studies, etc to do on other nights. Shyt, I had a midterm last week which essentially took me out of existence for a good week.

---


DO:

LOL @ you claiming I'm incapable of "higher level thinking skills or analytical thinking" when I have a degree in Computer Science & I have worked in IT for +10 years in application development, server administration & database administration. I also love the fact that I have no reading comprehension but you continue to make false claims about my involvement when I've clearly stated what I've done & continue to do. And of course, you having 2 degrees & having an opinion is no sign of arrogance on your part. That's only for people who have a difference of opinion. In fact, it's that really what all the name calling is all about..

Yeah, you mad.. - LOL


--

da6cents..

Criticize from the outside?? WTF???.... do you mofos realize than I ain't in some house on the hills in the burbs? I am in the heart of one of the most crime riddled cities in THESE Unites Stated. I AM BEING THE CHANGE I WANT TO SEE.

I am a responsible, law abiding citizen. I don't have 5 kids out here that I'm not taking care of. I am an example of what work ethic & education can produce. I have worked with youth as a mentor, volunteer, tutor, teacher, etc thorough various period of my life.

Will y'all please miss me w/ this what have you done, what are you doing bullshyt? I'm not the fuckin problem. The problem is the mafuckas who have robbed my house 3/4 times in the past 5 years. - LOL

Shyt, just last night the state boys had 2 dudes pulled over in my neighbor's driveway for what looked to be more than a routine traffic stop since one guy was cuffed in the back of the cruiser. Oh wait, can't say that. That's being negative. My speaking it is actually more of a problem that the SOBs out here committing the crimes themselves. - LOL

N.E. way....Y'all have fun.... 

[devineone]

keep pretending that the exceedingly high levels of violent crime in the black community has zero correlation to how the law enforcement will police & sometimes react in certain situations.

Whether there is a correlation or not, the point is there is never a justification for shooting unarmed people regardless of their race. Why is it so difficult for you to get that?  There was no justification or excuse for Oscar Grant to be shot in the back while lying down unarmed on the ground.  He was not posing a threat nor was he in a violent crime infested area at the time.

You're the one who brought all of those factors early on and attempted to steer the thread topic away from the original point which was that the cops unjustifiably shot an unarmed man.  No amount of stats or any numbers you bring up changes that fact.  I hope you never experience that side of the police.  Remember you are a black man and you do 'stay in the hood' as you say.  Oscar Grant was on the ground and wasn't visibly resisting the police but was shot anyway.  What is the justification for that? 

Just remember this if you ever find yourself on the wrong end of a gun held by police and you are 'cooperating'.  Let's hope they don't shoot you anyway because you do stay in the hood.  According to you, the cops would be justified so no need for blacks to come to your defense and protest in 'fake outrage', no need for your family to demand restitution and justice because the cops were just doing their job and you just got caught up in the crossfire.  Everyone should understand, go home and call it a day in the life of the hood. 

DO:
LOL @ you claiming I'm incapable of "higher level thinking skills or analytical thinking" when I have a degree in Computer Science & I have worked in IT for +10 years in application development, server administration & database administration.

You equate intelligence solely  with acquiring academic knowlege. You don't seem to really know what 'intelligence' is.   Having a degree alone doesn't necessarily equate to overall intellligence.  Having an IT degree means that you have technnical and mathematical skills.  This makes you skilllful in your area of expertise, computer and math.   You were taught that skill and you learned it.  I am no IT expert but that doesn't reflect on my intelligence or lack thereof, it just means I wasn't taught that skill and didn't learn it nor have I practiced it enough to do it on the level you have, I have other skill sets.  Skill sets and intelligence while related are two different things.  Do you read music? Do you play piano? Do you compose scores? That doesn't make you less intelligent if you don't, it just means it is a skill you haven't acquired. 

Yes it does take certain mental acumen to acquire certain skills but intelligence and higher level thinking skills is far more than the ability to open a book and learn something and do that 'something' enough to get good at it.  A lot of of skills come from long practice from having to do something consistently until it is as natural to us as breathing.  Having expert skills alone is not a determination of whether one possesess other components of intelligence that includes higher order thinking skills, the ability to reason, and analyze across the board.

That's not to say you can't do it, (within your area of expertise... IT and math) but overall intelligence is the ability to show those higher order thinking skills beyond one's particular area of expertise,  one should be able to apply higher level thinking skills in more than one area of their life.  So far I haven't seen you demonstrate that on this board. 

I have seen you spout facts and argue a point from one side only...Your side.  You haven't demonstrated the ability to see issues from different sides and you don't seem to grasp comprehension of anything but your own viewpoint.  I've seen this behavior from you in many posts.  That is not a demonstration of higher order thinking skills and intelligence.  It is a demonstration of obstinacy and dogmatic traits. When you're that way, how can you be truly intelligent because you are too close-minded and if you're close-minded, then you aren't open to new ideas and learning new things so you stay inside your own viewpoints. 

I also love the fact that I have no reading comprehension

You have shown on this forum in your many posts that you don't have reading comprehension skills.   You read what you you want to see instead of what is actually written and you lack the ability to accurately interpret what is actually written. I've seen that in your response to my posts and those of others.  That's called a lack of reading comprehension.

but you continue to make false claims about my involvement when I've clearly stated what I've done & continue to do.

I know what you've said that you've done.  I don't know how much you're currently doing but for you to be up in this forum criticizing the black community Looking at the deeds you claim to currently be doing to help the people in your 'hood', " talking to those within your sphere of influence', your actions fall way short of your mouth.

The quote below came from the Tavis Smiley thread where you didn't want to say what you did but were busy complaining about the problems but didn't want to get into what you did to actually solve the problems.

And those who have been here from sometime know I have a long history of service. I have volunteered in the schools working with student from grades 3-12 teaching such topics as history, computers & juggling. I mentor young men giving them advice on life, school & their careers. I have tutored mathematics (both for free & paid) from basic algebra all the way thru calculus.

However, as important as all that is, I am a LIVING example of what I preach.

You think that just by living your life, that is enough to say you're mentoring someone. It's not. You already said that 3 years ago you were working in the schools, well what are you doing nowthat you are no longer working in the schools and making the positive impact that you once were? You talk about what you 'have done' not what you currently do besides up in this forum complaining about the internal ills of black folks and 'seeing and talking'.  Your idea of mentorship is mainly talk, giving advice.  That's not nearly enough. If you're going to be up in this forum touting the ills of the black community, you need to be doing much more than talking and seeing.  You do the easiest thing for you to do and claim to be a mentor.  Heck, the homeless man on the street can tell a kid who passes him by to 'Stay in school, get an education so he won't turn out like the homeless man did.  Does that qualify as mentoring too?  Don't give yourself too much credit because your so called actions in mentoring fall really short for you to be up in this forum preaching the noise that you've preached. 

And of course, you having 2 degrees & having an opinion is no sign of arrogance on your part.

Legacy even if I had a GED, I would still conclude the same thing about you.   Anyone can observe and comment.  You are arrogant pure and simple anyone can see that.  You can't be told anything because you think you know everything.  In the time that I've been on this forum, I have never read where you admitted that you were incorrect about something.  You argue for the sake of argument and to antagonize and this by your own admittance.  You aren't interested in learning or respecting other view points, you're interested iin having the last word and being right all of the time. What's that if not arrogance?

You’re like the teenaged driver with the newly received license, they know just enough about driving to be dangerous.  They lack two important factors, wisdom and experience, which is why insurance claims for teenaged drivers are sky high! You’re the same way.  As my grandmother would say, your head has gotten too big for your neck.  You may have some knowledge, but you still lack wisdom and experience and that only comes with time.  But like most arrogant people, (who are too stuffed full of self-importance to realize that they don’t know everything), you’ll keep spouting all of your rhetoric not even realizing that you are traveling down a road, that others have forged many times before you. 

If you take the time to shut up for a minute and listen, you just might learn something.  You’re not the only educated person out there and there is such a thing as an ‘edumucated fool’.  Those are the ones who do the most damage.  Like I said, they know just enough to be dangerous, they lack the wisdom to look at “all sides of an issue”, they lack the humility to learn from others because they think they know it all, they lack the experience of ‘life’ to realize that there are some things they just don’t know.  I'm sure I'm not the only poster who peep it.   

Yeah, you mad.. - LOL

Yeah, and for all of your college degree you often come across as immature and simple-minded in how you communicate and argue points, the proof is in your posts and your inability to 'get it'. I don't have to be mad to see that, I just read your post and observe where you're coming from..LOL 

Criticize from the outside?? WTF???.... do you mofos realize than I ain't in some house on the hills in the burbs? I am in the heart of one of the most crime riddled cities in THESE Unites Stated.

Legacy, do you really not comprehend what that statement means "criticize from the outside?"  Do you really think it literally means where you live?  Because if you do, then you prove all over again what I say about your lack of comprehension.   You took that literally.  Are you just being deliberately obtuse here?  You have to know that living in the hood, doesn't automatically qualify you as being on the 'inside' of making a difference in your community.  People can live inside their own bubble in isolation and that has nothing to do with the location of where they live but everything to do with their actions, interest and mindset.

I AM BEING THE CHANGE I WANT TO SEE.

No what you are doing is living your life responsibly and you get no gold peanuts for doing what you're supposed to do anyway. This is not what is meant by "being the change you want to see in others."(At least that isn't all that phrase means and you know it so stop being deliberately obtuse.  (Again lack of reading comprehension and higher order thinking skills shows clearly here).  What you are doing is not unique. 

There are millions of people who live their life responsibly and die but never really reach out and touch the lives of others in a signifcant way.  They never give back.  Just living your life is not enough to qualify for mentorship.  Whether you live in the hood or on 5th avenue that is irrelevant. I grew up in rural south and didn't have much and I don't expect praise because I came from nothing to achieve something. My parents raised me to achieve and they valued education. I in turn take my abilities and I help others who did not grow up in a household where education was valued.  You get no gold peanuts for doing what you're supposed to and are expected to do.  It's when you do what you don't have to do,when you go over and beyond in a 'real way' is when you can then say you're contributing and 'seeing and talking' is not cutting it.

I am a responsible, law abiding citizen. I don't have 5 kids out here that I'm not taking care of. I am an example of what work ethic & education can produce. I have worked with youth as a mentor, volunteer, tutor, teacher, etc thorough various period of my life.

What are you currently doing? 'Have is past tense'.  And what did you do when you 'mentored these youths? What did you do when you were volunteering?  Just throwing out words like mentor, and volunteer to show you were actively helping disadvantaged youths is not enough.  What did you actually do?  If by mentoring you saw and talked, that's not enough.  What did your volunteering entail?

Will y'all please miss me w/ this what have you done, what are you doing bullshyt?

Translation:  Will y'all all quick picking on me and calling me out?  Let me just keep posting complaints and rants about black folks.  I don't have to take responsibility and do more than rant and complain.

Sure Leg, I will be sure to miss your rants about the black community from here on out especially since I know you are mostly all talk and no action. There's nothing too impressive about that. 

I'm not the fuckin problem. 

You are certainly not part of the solution either. You think you are being part of the solution because you aren't contributing to the ongoing problem.  That's not being part of the solution.  That is simply you living your life same as millions of other people do.  What are you doing to reduce the problem?  Oh I know, 'seeing and talking'  That's Legacy's idea of full blown mentorship.  Keep doing you Legacy because you're mouthy anyway and perhaps that's all you're capable of contributing... 'mouth'.

The problem is the mafuckas who have robbed my house 3/4 times in the past 5 years. - LOL

If you don't want your house robbed, then move out of the hood into a new safer neigbhorhood.  That's your choice to stay there.  Moving does not have to affect your still helping and working with disadvantaged youths.  You can move your physical location but still work and provide services to those kids you claim to care about.  Just 'talking to kids who are within your sphere of influence is not enough'.  What about the ones who are not in your sphere, who's going to help them?
 

Shyt, just last night the state boys had 2 dudes pulled over in my neighbor's driveway for what looked to be more than a routine traffic stop since one guy was cuffed in the back of the cruiser. Oh wait, can't say that. That's being negative. My speaking it is actually more of a problem that the SOBs out here committing the crimes themselves. - LOL

I think it is fine to speak about the problems you encounter, but that shouldn't be ALLyou are doing, always complaining about the problems without taking any 'real' steps to be part of the solution.  "Seeing and talking" is not being a part of the solution especially in light of the amount of noise you've been talking recently up in this forum about the black community.  If you're going to talk noise up here, then your actions off the forum should reflect that you are actively doing something to make a difference and by doing something, I don't mean 'seeing and talking'. 

[devineone]

As for the other issues, lets cut to the chase on one issue right away. Why would I vote for Obama if I was a republican?

Colin Powell voted for Obama and he is a republican?  What's your point here?  I'm sure more than a few republicans cast their vote for Obama this past election.

I also love the fact that I'm no longer "pro-black" since I want, iono black folx to stop killing each other & stop retarding our own development by disadvantaging ourselves via poor decision

What are you doing in your 'hood' to help bring about change so that what you want can come to fruition? Oh I know seeing and talking.    We all can want things, but if our contribution to want is just talking about it,that just makes you one of the many black folks who just complain about the problems without playing a significant part in being the solution.

In fact, Clinton, Bush, Greenspan & congress (both parties) played significant role in the housing crisis to being with by deregulating the housing industry (sub-prime loans), deregulating the security industry(credit default swaps or derivatives) & threatening legal action thru the attorney general against lending institutions who were not pushing these loans out to the market.

The fact that there was deregulation of the seurity industry doesn't excuse those folks who took advantage of that to do bad things with mortgage lending.  That subject was discussed at length in another thread topic.  Regardless, the fallout was huge and tax payers are footing the bill.  CNN ran a program called 'The House of Cards, which aired last month it was pretty interesting in how it looked at all of the players who contributed to the housing crisis.  From the Wall street ponzi scheme to Greenspan, to the subprime lenders out in California.

[The Shepherd]

Legacy, I find your recent responses, and what you choose to respond to, quite interesting in this thread. You've chosen to defend your motivations instead of speaking, addressing directly the crux of this discussion. The crux of this discussion is the killing of unarmed black men by the police.

Through the entirety of this thread, you have chosen to defend police brutality, and justify aggressive policing of innocents, and you have not come off of that stance! You have not wavered in your conviction that those actions are 'common sense'. And now, you seem to be either too stubborn or too locked in, too instransigent to see how contemptuous your statements sound.

Think about this, you have attempted to justify the killing of unarmed black men by the police. You say 'no one wants this to happen', but yet you understand it happening, and call it 'common sense'. Psychologically, you can only justify the killing of innocent folks if you have dehumanized them, if you've developed such a contempt for them that you no longer can see them as individuals.

I recently read some articles on the 1968 My Lai massacre in Vietnam. I read statements from some of the perpetrators who killed upwards to 200 innocent, unarmed Vietnamese women, children, and elderly. One of the statements that really struck me was a soldier who said (paraphrasing) 'we just killed them, they were no more than animals to us'.

You have shown no sympathy for the innocents killed, no grief for their families, only contempt for the community that they came from. You don't see yourself as them (the innocents), but you see them as the others (black criminals in the hood), therefore, they deserve to be killed, whether innocent or not.

You know this is a public forum. And when this type of contempt for the black community is posted on a public forum by someone black, I will scorch the earth to stamp it out! The only way a black man can justify an innocent black man being killed by the police, or by anyone, is if he has an extreme contempt for black men! I'm terribly saddened by your postings and recent ideological shift and fortressing. Must be the company that you're keeping.

By the way, you probably need to re-read that article you posted on FDR and the Great Depression. Even the conservative, Rupert Murdoch (NY Post, Fox News) owned Wall Street Journal left in this quote by the economists -

Some New Deal policies certainly benefited the economy by establishing a basic social safety net through Social Security and unemployment benefits, and by stabilizing the financial system through deposit insurance and the Securities Exchange Commission. But others violated the most basic economic principles by suppressing competition, and setting prices and wages in many sectors well above their normal levels.

Let me give you a little lesson on exposing an idealogue. First, the article is entitled "How Government Prolonged The Depression". Then, they say that FDR's policies did not shorten the Great Depression. Then, they throw in some arcane stats with no raw data (we all know how flexible stats are).

But, here's the key to exposing them as idealogues. They actually say that some New Deal policies benefited the economy. They actually name 3. Yet, in defending their position that the New Deal was deleterious to economic growth they name only one policy (NIRA). It doesn't matter that the NIRA was geared towards de-regulation (elimination of the Sherman and other anti-trust acts). It doesn't matter that the gov't spending aspect of the New Deal benefited the economy (they acknowledged that).

What matters is that they chose to link the New Deal policy of the NIRA with the stimulus package of the Obama administration. Follow this carefully now!

The most damaging policies were those at the heart of the recovery plan, including The National Industrial Recovery Act (NIRA), which tossed aside the nation's antitrust acts and permitted industries to collusively raise prices provided that they shared their newfound monopoly rents with workers by substantially raising wages well above underlying productivity growth. The NIRA covered over 500 industries, ranging from autos and steel, to ladies hosiery and poultry production. Each industry created a code of "fair competition" which spelled out what producers could and could not do, and which were designed to eliminate "excessive competition" that FDR believed to be the source of the Depression.

These codes distorted the economy by artificially raising wages and prices, restricting output, and reducing productive capacity by placing quotas on industry investment in new plants and equipment. Following government approval of each industry code, industry prices and wages increased substantially, while prices and wages in sectors that weren't covered by the NIRA, such as agriculture, did not. We have calculated that manufacturing wages were as much as 25% above the level that would have prevailed without the New Deal. And while the artificially high wages created by the NIRA benefited the few that were fortunate to have a job in those industries, they significantly depressed production and employment, as the growth in wage costs far exceeded productivity growth.

First, they keep saying policies, but only name one policy. Second, what does that policy have to do with anything that is being offered up in the stimulus package? If they're going to draw a parallel, then the policies being proposed must have some semblance of similarity. Is Obama suggesting that big business be allowed to collude? Is he suggesting de-regulating these industries? Or is he spending gov't money to shore up these industries? They already said that gov't spending helped stabilize the economy. So, what are they arguing in this article?

Tax reform that broadens rather than narrows the tax base and that increases incentives to work,

That means lower taxes on the rich and higher taxes on everybody else. Lower taxes on the rich? Isn't that what we've been doing the last 8 years?

But the facts do not support the perception that FDR's policies shortened the Depression, or that similar policies will pull our nation out of its current economic downturn.

Ahh, here it is! Where are the similar policies between FDR and Obama? And, are the policies that didn't work for FDR the same ones being proposed by Obama? Since the NIRA is the only policy that they used as an example, and since Obama has proposed nothing similar to the NIRA, then we must be left with the conclusion that this article was deceptively written by a couple of propogandist idealogues.

Uhh, did you post that article to make your point or mine? And, it's nice to help you continue your schooling! I'll consider this post my volunteer work for the week!

[devineone]

The only way a black man can justify an innocent black man being killed by the police, or by anyone, is if he has an extreme contempt for black men! I'm terribly saddened by your postings and recent ideological shift and fortressing. Must be the company that you're keeping.

This reminds me of a first cousin of mine from some years ago.  He was all about the black community until he went off to college (northwestern university) and started hanging around white folks. The next time he came back around us he was full of criticism of the black community.  He started comparing us to white folks and talking about ‘how come we don’t do this, or act like that. He couldn’t stop criticizing us.  We were like man whatz up with you?  Then that holiday came around and he brought home his girlfriend.  Ms. Whitey.  She was from somewhere in the Chicago ‘burbs.  She was so uncomfortable around us. I wondered why she even bothered to come, I guess she wanted to meet the folks.