Why Are Men That Ignore You Shocked When They Get Dumped?

[MsHeartBeat]

Last week I extricated myself from a situation with a younger guy I'd been kickin it with for several months.  It wasn't anything super serious, but I liked him lot and we had fun together.  However, there was not enough involvement from him in my book to ever MAKE it serious either.

He said I lived too far away (his excuse for not visiting more often). Couldn't spend the night due to family obligations (fact: he does have an infirm uncle he lives with and has primary responsibilty for). 

Maybe part of the problem is his youth, but I've never been involved with a man that seemed to prefer to hang with his buddies shooting hoops, hanging out, and playing video games than spend time with me.  lol!!  A week might go by and we'd talk on the phone and text, but not spend face to face time together.  Most recently he started claiming he wasn't getting my texts and didn't see any missed calls from me. To me that meant either you are #1 lying, or #2 some woman was deleting them from your phone before you could see them.  This should not have been an issue because even if you didn't get MINE, phones send and they receive, feel me? 

My parting words:  "No matter which one it was, you and this situation are not providing me with what I am looking for, so I'm out and moving on.  Thanks for the memories!"

So why was he all upset, asking why can't we be friends. Ha! I never waste my time trying to be friends with exes, which I told him.  How you gonna be friends with someone you boned and still have that sexual interest in?  I feel it muddies the water for future relationships, and I like to move on to a man with a blank slate and no baggage.

Dude seemed so surprised, like the dumping came out of left field or something.  He got VERY upset! Claimed I didn't want anything to do with him and that he KNEW THIS WOULD HAPPEN.  After I told him I was moving on, he kept saying "remember you wanted this, not me!"  Whatever!

The  head scratching part for me was this:  after the way he ignored me and did his own thing like I didn't matter to him anyway, why be bothered about me formalizing the split?  Wasn't that what you wanted?  Your behavior sure communicates that message!  In my view, you are the party responsible for what ultimately happened between us, so why are you bitchin?

Was my behavior really that unusual? Are most women not so firm and decisive about what they want in a man and refuse to settle for less? Was my behavior THAT different or shocking? I don't get it.

[devineone]

My parting words:  "No matter which one it was, you and this situation are not providing me with what I am looking for, so I'm out and moving on.  Thanks for the memories!"
So why was he all upset, asking why can't we be friends.
Dude seemed so surprised, like the dumping came out of left field or something.  He got VERY upset! Claimed I didn't want anything to do with him and that he KNEW THIS WOULD HAPPEN.  After I told him I was moving on, he kept saying "remember you wanted this, not me!"  Whatever
The  head scratching part for me was this:  after the way he ignored me and did his own thing like I didn't matter to him anyway, why be bothered about me formalizing the split?  Wasn't that what you wanted?  Your behavior sure communicates that message!  In my view, you are the party responsible for what ultimately happened between us, so why are you bitchin?!

That was his ego and pride talking Ms. HB. He knew he was wrong but he didn't want to admit that to himself so he tried to play the old flip the script game on you.  He's younger than you so remember he isn't used to a mature wiser woman being hip to those games.  The women in his age group probably would fall for that line and behavior by him and start to feel guilty and take the blame as though they alone was the cause of the break up and not 'his behavior'.   You had to school him.  Hopefully he'll learn from this experience with you and GROW up a bit.

Was my behavior really that unusual? Are most women not so firm and decisive about what they want in a man and refuse to settle for less? Was my behavior THAT different or shocking? I don't get it.

Maybe in his experience with women, your behavior, that of being a firm and decisive woman who knows what she wants and has little tolerance and patience for trifling behavior by a dude like him, is unusual.  You schooled him and hopefully he'll learn. Guys don't like it when women school them.   They prefer women to just shut up and put up and when women like you speak up, they think the woman is in the wrong because they just don't want to acknowledge their own behavior.  I went through something similiar last summer when I schooled this dude who took me out on a first date and got too touchy feely and then wondered why that first date, was the last one.

[cool breeze]

Maybe part of the problem is his youth, but I've never been involved with a man that seemed to prefer to hang with his buddies shooting hoops, hanging out, and playing video games than spend time with me.  lol!!  A week might go by and we'd talk on the phone and text, but not spend face to face time together. 

I'm 42, I play basketball, baseball, video games and I hang out with my friends..That being said, while it's okay to have hobbies and friends, as a single man when you have the opportunity to spend time with a woman that's into you: DO IT!! These are the same cats that cry and moan about women not liking them, then when they do manage to get a woman, they suddenly have soo many other things to do..

Too many of these young cats don't know how the equation works..Sure, you need to have balance..But spending time with a quality woman trumps hanging with your boys and hoops and video games in my book..Do you stop hanging out with your friends? No..Do you stop or abandon your hobbies? No, but as a man you have to learn how to balance your love life and your hobbies and other interests..

If you can't manage to call or spend time with your woman, but you can hang with the fellas to shoot hoops and play video games? Well, you obviously don't need a woman..And you might need to play for the other team..

All the time these cats spend playing video games and most of them can't even earn any money playing video games professionally..It's not worth losing a high quality woman, I'll tell you that..

I meet so many young cats on X-Box live playing Street Fighter IV that are shocked to hear that I'm in my 40's, married and I have an active social life.."How do you have time for all that," they ask me as I'm beating them senseless with Ryu, Akuma and Cammy..I know what's important, I tell them and that means that Nita and my family comes first with my friends and hobbies bringing up the rear..

Shoot, I might have to go to Evo http://evo2k.com/?p=169 in July and make me some of that money..These kids are good--some of them anyway, but they ain't ready for this old man..

[devineone]

If you can't manage to call or spend time with your woman, but you can hang with the fellas to shoot hoops and play video games? Well, you obviously don't need a woman..And you might need to play for the other team..

ROTFL at CB's comments. CB you're a trip but right on the money!

[MsHeartBeat]

P.S. 

He is still pissed.  Sent a text reminding me that this was MY CHOICE not his.  I'm thinking "I know, and???" 

I usually understand men with ease, but this is one of the few times in my life when I really don't understand where he is coming from and why he is all upset.  Sheesh!! 

[devineone]

P.S. 
He is still pissed.  Sent a text reminding me that this was MY CHOICE not his.  I'm thinking "I know, and???"

Dude is acting like he's a prize that you missed out on and he wants to keep reminding you of it. Pluueeze.   He needs to get over himself and that ego of his. 

I usually understand men with ease, but this is one of the few times in my life when I really don't understand where he is coming from and why he is all upset.  Sheesh!! 

He may be upset because now he's missing the water now that the well has run dry.   He took you for granted, but now that you cut him loose, he had a wake up call to what he is missing, but in his arrogance, he still doesn't quite 'get it'.
Maybe Ms. HB, you can cut and paste (at your discretion) what you've read here if you want and send this to him as a text. (Especially what CB said).  He's so busy focused on "your actions", that he can't see "his' own actions.  He's too busy finding fault with you for 'your choice', that he can't see what 'he did' that lead you to this choice.  Maybe you can help steer his focus a little, so he can "understand'.  (Then again maybe not, you wouldn't want him to know you were talking about him).

[philnation]

I'm 42, I play basketball, baseball, video games and I hang out with my friends..That being said, while it's okay to have hobbies and friends, as a single man when you have the opportunity to spend time with a woman that's into you: DO IT!! These are the same cats that cry and moan about women not liking them, then when they do manage to get a woman, they suddenly have soo many other things to do..

Exactly!  But the reality is that those "other things to do" really get to the heart of the matter with regard to how we spend our time: it's not a question of having time, but making time.

If the subject comes up, a lot of friends and colleagues mention to me a comment along the lines of, "you've got such a busy schedule, you probably don't have time for a woman".  I always tell them that having time isn't a question, it's making time and having a woman that's worth making time for.  If we really wanted to, we could say don't "have" time for anything we can think of, even a job - but I think most of us value getting paid so we can pay our bills and live life, so we make time for a job.  We make time for who and what matters to us, so a guy who makes time to play a sport or video games is deciding that they matter to him.  A few years ago, I decided that baseball doesn't matter to me like a few other things do, so I retired despite loving the game (and missing it terribly now).

Most of the time, the decisions we make regarding our time don't require a ton of deep thought and consideration like mine to hang 'em up on the diamond.

A woman I was interested in once said a similar thing to me, while also talking about how busy she is with her job.  I didn't say it, because it wouldn't change a thing, but in reality she was telling me I'm not worth making time for - because like I told her with my busy schedule, having time isn't the question.  I subtly (maybe too subtly) told her she was worth making time for in my eyes, but apparently she didn't feel the same way.  Oh well.

[devineone]

I know I probably shouldn't address this poster's comment but.... This seems like such a classic case of the "nice guy syndrome that Ms. HB talks about.'

A woman I was interested in once said a similar thing to me, while also talking about how busy she is with her job  I subtly (maybe too subtly) told her she was worth making time for in my eyes, but apparently she didn't feel the same way.  Oh well.

If you were interested in this woman, why were you so subtle about it? 
Why not take the bull by the horn and say, "Hey I’m interested in you, I find you attractive, I would really like to spend time getting to know you".
This goes back to the points Ms HB made in the thread topic: Why is it that women deliberately choose "bad boys.

Women want a man to approach.  Nice guys tend to be fearful. 
Just like men are socialized to think women should look and act a certain way, women are too.  The #1 way we judge you as suitable is if you are manly - which means assertive, know what you want and go after it, not ruffled by the threat of a little rejection (no one ever died from being told no), confident.  Bad boys tend to be Alpha men.  Nice guys are perceived as wimps.  Until either of those two ends of the spectrum can adjust their behavior and come more to the middle (the type of guy women REALLY want), they will both be stuck with certain types of females or with no females and all alone.

A woman I was interested in once said a similar thing to me, while also talking about how busy she is with her job.  I didn't say it, because it wouldn't change a thing, but in reality she was telling me I'm not worth making time for - because like I told her with my busy schedule, having time isn't the question.

She said she was busy with her job, "You" said you weren’t worthy of her time’. What makes you think this woman was really telling you this when she said she was busy with her job?  Were you involved with this woman? Or was she someone ‘you were interested in and would like to become involved with her?  Just because you were interested in her, didn’t mean she "had" to be interested in you.  Rather than just chalk it up to ‘win some, lose some’, Why go and make a judgmental assumption about what she told you?

By interpreting her saying she is busy with her job to mean  “She didn’t think I was worthy enough to make time for".  That’s an insidious way of implying, that ‘something must be lacking in this woman since she didn’t find you worthy enough to spend time with her. She lacks the good judgment to appreciate your worthiness; when it really couldn't have been about you, it could have really been about her job. 

You've mentioned this happened to you before back in Sept. '08 in the "Are women the New Men thread topic, where you cited an example of women not responding to you because they have other things going on in their lives and you still have this same mindset all these months later.

And this has consequences for those of us who want committed relationships. We run into women who don't want a relationship because she thinks it's an either/or decision between a relationship and school/career.

You seem to feel that a woman "owes' it to you to reciprocate your interest. People go out with you because "they" want to' and not because 'you" want them to. BTW, you aren't "running" into these women as you style it, you are' choosing' to pursue these women for a committment.  And these women don't 'owe" it to you, to want the same things you want either.  

I asked you back then in that thread topic, why are you choosing to approach women who are focused on their careers and school?... to which you responded:

Sure, if I go after them I'm not likely to find women ready to commit to anything; but if I don't go after such women, the spin is that I'm "intimidated by an intelligent or strong woman" or that I "don't like women with ambition".  The man can't win for losing, basically.

You replied in such a way that you made yourself out to be a victim.  Being a victim is not attractive.  You also gave yourself a convenient excuse to keep running around in circles chasing after certain types of women who are not on the same page as you.  You know what Ben Franklin said in his Poor Richard's Almanac about the definition of insanity:  Doing the same thing over and over and expecting to get a different result.  You don't have to choose these women, you can go after women who want the same things you want. 

I know it sucks when what you want doesn't pan out with the person you desire but hey that's just life in the dating world.  No need to become embittered by it because that's not attractive and a guy with a bitter, resentful attitude against women will project this vibe and women pick up on that and run a mile.

Or, when we find a woman who's looking for more than just a roll in the hay, she's already been around the block and then some, and might even have a kid or two or an STD.

 
Who says you are entitled to Miss. Perfect woman with no history? No such woman exists even the ones who are seemingly perfect will have some imperfections just like the guys.  I believe this is the attitude that so called ‘nice guys’ have that Ms. HB spoke about in her article:
Why Nice Guys Suck and Women Don't Want You! (c) 2008 Deborrah Cooper

“However, even if a woman is 50 years old, she does NOT want a weak, whiney, judgmental, superior acting dude!  Every woman on this planet wants a guy that she sees as attractive, exciting and sexy..”

This is what the so called “nice guys” do when women don’t reciprocate their interest.   In order to make themselves feel better, the nice guy has to think of something negative about that woman.  When they do this enough times, they end up with this embittered attitude about women in general, which has come across loudly and clearly in many of your previous posts about women, relationships and your experiences. 

You are probably unknowingly giving off this vibe of quiet desperation that no woman would find attractive. Nice guys’ are quick to make themselves into the ‘victim’.  They have a victim mentality and that comes across even if they aren’t aware of it.  If I see it come off in this forum, how much clearer do you think a woman sees it when you’re interacting with her?

Confident guys with an edge, don’t take on this “victim attitude” if a woman they were interested in said she was busy with her job and didn't have time to go out with them.  Sure their feelings will be hurt, but they probably don’t dwell on it or immediately think something negative about the woman or about themselves.  They just chalk it down to “win some lose some’. 

Guys with low self confidence and low self esteem have to find some type of justification for the reason a woman turned them down, and they usually turn the situation around to where the woman is shown in the bad light.  “She belittled him by thinking he wasn’t worthy of her time".  That’ couldn’t be the case at all, and it is merely the "nice guy" projecting his thoughts onto that woman.  It’s actually what the nice guy thinks about himself.  It’s called ‘transference in psychotherapy.  You transfer your own thoughts about yourself onto the woman who said she was busy and this is how you make yourself out to be a victim, the martyr, judgmental, superior and all of those things that are a turn off when so called "nice guys" interact with women.

The guy who won me over exuded confidence in himself when it came to how he interacted with me.  This guy had pizzazz, sexiness, attractiveness and he gave off a positive vibe that showed that while he liked and appreciated me, he didn’t feel as though I ‘owed’ it to him to reciprocate his feelings. Neither was he subtle about his interest.  He was respectful but he let me know how he felt about me and what he wanted.  I was also aware that his world wouldn't fall apart nor would he think less of himself or me, if I didn't feel the same way...fortunately for him, I did.    

[philnation]

I know I probably shouldn't address this poster's comment but.... This seems like such a classic case of the "nice guy syndrome that Ms. HB talks about.'

I think it's more a classic case of someone having such an obvious agenda that they engage in intellectual dishonesty, from the facts not mattering to essentially mis-quoting the person they want so badly to demonize.  Let the record show that on two occasions you quote me from another post with at least one sentence in between ones that you highlight here omitted.  To wit:

A woman I was interested in once said a similar thing to me, while also talking about how busy she is with her job  I subtly (maybe too subtly) told her she was worth making time for in my eyes, but apparently she didn't feel the same way.  Oh well.

...

And this has consequences for those of us who want committed relationships. We run into women who don't want a relationship because she thinks it's an either/or decision between a relationship and school/career.

Since you linked the prior posts that you took them from, anyone can click on the links and see that you didn't quote me verbatim, and as such are not showing a great deal of integrity here.  But just in case you feel so inclined to edit the post after the fact, they're right here in the original form so readers can see what you're doing.  (Of course, your post will also have a later timestamp than this one by me in that case.)

Look, I get it - you think I'm the scum of the earth, worse than even the Craigslist killer.  It's okay for you to just be honest and admit that and get it over with; I'm a big boy and the thoughts of a complete stranger on the Internet aren't going to rock my world to its foundation.  Engaging in this kind of dishonesty just so your belief about me can appear to have a factual basis says a lot more about you than it does me.  (Not to mention the fact that you felt a need to come back to this over a month after my original post and during which time you have posted elsewhere on here.)

A woman I was interested in once said a similar thing to me, while also talking about how busy she is with her job  I subtly (maybe too subtly) told her she was worth making time for in my eyes, but apparently she didn't feel the same way.  Oh well.

If you were interested in this woman, why were you so subtle about it? 
Why not take the bull by the horn and say, "Hey I’m interested in you, I find you attractive, I would really like to spend time getting to know you".

I actually did just that, but since you weren't there when it happened, to say nothing of how loose you are being with my quotes, you wouldn't know that.  Her response was to talk about how busy our lives are, especially hers - as if that means by definition we can't possibly date - and shortly after it also mentioned the fact that we live several hours apart (she's from here but relocated before this), before she ever touched the subject of how she felt about me - and even then, she barely touched it at all.

It will probably kill you to know this since you're clearly hell-bent on painting me as being as the worst man on the planet over this, but I'm still friendly with and in touch with this lady every so often because I've known her for years and am friendly with her father as well.  She was quite happy when I wished her a happy birthday a couple of months ago, and I called her when I was in her area on business a few weeks ago to see if we could get together.  (Our schedules didn't mesh, so we didn't; maybe next time.)

Let's be honest here: if a person's response to an expression of romantic interest is to barely touch the subject and immediately talk about obstacles to dating such as the demands of one's job, they're telling you they're not interested.  Women often try to "let a guy down gently" instead of just flat-out saying, "I'm not interested", and nowadays, one of the common tactics to do that is to say they're too busy on the job to date when interest is expressed.

If a person finds someone they're really interested in, having time is not an issue because they'll make time to be with that person, like Kenny Lattimore talks about in Never Too Busy.  We all make time for who and what matters to us, plain and simple, and it's rarely a long, drawn-out decision.  In a romantic context, it's better to realize that and move on to other potential partners than to keep chasing someone who's made it clear they have no interest.  The guy MsH was with clearly didn't feel MsH was worth making time for, and she saw this and acted appropriately.  I'd venture to guess that you don't think she's guilty of thinking he had to be interested in her or of making a judgmental assumption about him since you didn't similarly give her the business about it.

By interpreting her saying she is busy with her job to mean  “She didn’t think I was worthy enough to make time for".  That’s an insidious way of implying, that ‘something must be lacking in this woman since she didn’t find you worthy enough to spend time with her. She lacks the good judgment to appreciate your worthiness; when it really couldn't have been about you, it could have really been about her job. 

I look at it as I saw the message in what she was saying and nothing more.  Since I'm still friendly with her and we're still in touch every so often, your not-even-half-baked theory doesn't stand up to reality.  But we've already established that the facts don't matter to you.

Of course, I didn't see you bashing MsH about her actions with the guy she was with.  I didn't see you telling her how ending it with that guy was her "insidious way of implying that something must be wrong with the guy and he lacks the good judgment to appreciate her worthiness" or how she "seems to feel a man 'owes' it to her to reciprocate her interest".  For ending things with that guy after realizing he didn't think she was worth making time for, she's "a firm and decisive woman who knows what she wants," but somehow for doing the same thing with a woman who made it clear she's not interested, I'm "making a judgmental assumption", I "seem to feel a woman 'owes' it to me to reciprocate (my) interest" and I "have a bitter, resentful attitude against women".

Or, when we find a woman who's looking for more than just a roll in the hay, she's already been around the block and then some, and might even have a kid or two or an STD.

Who says you are entitled to Ms perfect woman with no history?

Probably someone who's dumb enough to think that (a) a perfect person actually exists and (b) the measuring stick of perfection is not having a kid or two or an STD.  I know those aren't beliefs I hold.  That's to say nothing of the fact that what you quoted here (and without surrounding statements to establish context) is a general comment and not one specific to me - but it's already been made clear that integrity isn't your agenda here.

[Informed Investor]

If a person finds someone they're really interested in, having time is not an issue because they'll make time to be with that person, like Kenny Lattimore talks about in Never Too Busy.  We all make time for who and what matters to us, plain and simple, and it's rarely a long, drawn-out decision.  In a romantic context, it's better to realize that and move on to other potential partners than to keep chasing someone who's made it clear they have no interest.  The guy MsH was with clearly didn't feel MsH was worth making time for, and she saw this and acted appropriately.  I'd venture to guess that you don't think she's guilty of thinking he had to be interested in her or of making a judgmental assumption about him since you didn't similarly give her the business about it.
Phil

This was very well said. If a woman is feeling a man all those limitations and challenges fade away. Women don't have time for men they aren't feeling.

To all:
This site has a long history of folk who don't understand "intent" and "impact"

[devineone]

I think it's more a classic case of someone having such an obvious agenda

It wasn't about me having a personal agenda against you. That's not why I posted what I did.  I just felt sorry for you and how you can't seem to catch a break with the woman you want, and how you continue to dwell on what she said in her rejection of you and how you've belittled yourself based on what she said.   
 

Not to mention the fact that you felt a need to come back to this over a month after my original post and during which time you have posted elsewhere on here.)

And... so what does this prove?  I've posted on old comments and thread topics before made by other posters, there's no conspiracy agenda to malign your so called character as you're trying to put it.  It ain't that serious.

Look, I get it - you think I'm the scum of the earth, worse than even the Craigslist killer. It's okay for you to just be honest and admit that and get it over with

LOL... Wow, do you want some cheese with that 'whine'?
I don't think you're the scum of the earth, but apparantly You Do since you're the one who said this.  (Again transference, you're attempting to transfer/project how you think about yourself onto me). "Nobody can make you feel these things without your permission", (Eleanor Roosevelt's paraphrased quote taken out of context btw  ).  

they engage in intellectual dishonesty, from the facts not mattering to essentially mis-quoting the person they want so badly to demonize

I also don't think my quotes took what you said out of context to the extent that your message was lost which is considered engaging in contextomy.  While I didn't quote you verbatim and I excerpted parts of your quote according to the relevancy of the points I was making, the overall context of your original message even without surrounding statements remained the same. Just as I broke apart your first paragraph to address your different sentences and phrases.  That didn't change the meaning of your sentences nor your paragraph.

Anyway here is the entire paragraph quote verbatim.  This current thread didn't go into sexual hookups or anything else, so I excerpted the part your quote to keep it relevant to the women being too busy to make time for you, to show that you've said this previously and showing your entire paragraph quote doesn't change this sentence nor the context of what you've said.

And this has consequences for those of us who want committed relationships.  We run into women who are just looking for sexual hookups, or ones who don't know how to act when they find a guy who isn't looking to hop in the sack ASAP and thus do everything to self-destruct things, perhaps sub-consciously so.  We run into ones who ridicule us because we're looking for something better than just a sexual hookup.  We run into women who don't want a relationship because she thinks it's an either/or decision between a relationship and school/career.

It seems you're trying to use contextomy argument to divert attention away from focusing on 'you'. 
Also that argument about taking a quote out of context automatically makes it contextomy is false.  If that were the case, people wouldn't be making millions of dollars off intellecutal property rights by using other people's quotes out of context.  How many famous people's quotes and one liners have been used out of context... far too many to name.
Not quoting an entire passage verbatim is not dishonesty, however taking someone's direct quote and distorting it is intellectually dishonest. And when the quote taken out of context distorts the meaning of the original passage then that can be considered intellectual dishonesty.  None of that happened here and I didn't need to quote that entire thread topic to be in context.

the thoughts of a complete stranger on the Internet aren't going to rock my world to its foundation.

BTW, when you pm'd me wanting to meet up with me last summer in NYC, I guess the fact that I was a complete stranger didn't bother you then huh.   Of course I said No.  I don't meet up with strangers and now that you've identified yourself as being 'scum of the earth like the Craigs list killer" (your words), I'm really glad I didn't meet up with you.  A woman can't be too careful these days. 

I actually did just that, but since you weren't there when it happened, to say nothing of how loose you are being with my quotes, you wouldn't know that.

Hey you're the one who said that you subtly maybe too subtly told her she was worth making time for.  So I can't be faulted for thinking you didn't step up and be assertive.  The way you worded it when you initially posted does not show assertiveness so I based my quote on what you first said.  I didn't have to be there, I just went by what you posted.  If you had done this, then why didn't you just say that when you first posted?  If you did do make a move like this, then it is not subtle.

Her response was to talk about how busy our lives are, especially hers - as if that means by definition we can't possibly date - and shortly after it also mentioned the fact that we live several hours apart (she's from here but relocated before this), before she ever touched the subject of how she felt about me - and even then, she barely touched it at all.

Well you may be right in that she is just being nice and doesn't want to date you.  I can't say that I blame her though especially in light of how you come off in this forum as the "nice guy' who seems to epitomize everything in Ms. HB's article, Why Nice Guys suck and women don't want you.. and in your attitude towards women.   

Is it any wonder a woman isn't interested in seeing you as a life partner someone they'd want to date and commit to?...What woman would want to date the 'scum of the earth", worse even than the Craigslist Killer, "the worst man on the planet'?  These are your words, in 'your posts' not mine and nothing I posted implies that I thought you were this person you described.. These are your own thoughts about yourself.  If you think such negative ugly thoughts about yourself, is it any wonder that you aren't successful romantically with the object of your affection? 

Look, I get it - you think I'm the scum of the earth, worse than even the Craigslist killer. 
It will probably kill you to know this since you're clearly hell-bent on painting me as being as the worst man on the planet 

It will probably kill you to know this since you're clearly hell-bent on painting me as being as the worst man on the planet over this, but I'm still friendly with and in touch with this lady every so often because I've known her for years and am friendly with her father as well.  She was quite happy when I wished her a happy birthday a couple of months ago, and I called her when I was in her area on business a few weeks ago to see if we could get together.  (Our schedules didn't mesh, so we didn't; maybe next time.)

Nope this doesn't kill me at all... I'm getting mine with the man I want to be with and who wants to be with me.  You're the one who is in the 'friend status'  when it seems you want to be something more. Is it killing you to settle for being a 'friend' to this woman and wishing her happy birthday, when you'd rather have something more going on with her? 

I personally wouldn't want to put myself through that type of emotional torture.  I don't see the point in staying in touch with someone and allowing them access to my emotions and to me when I'm experiencing unrequited feelings for them.  Why put myself through something like that?  That certainly wouldn't be helping me move on emotionally towards someone else. 

Let's be honest here: if a person's response to an expression of romantic interest is to barely touch the subject and immediately talk about obstacles to dating such as the demands of one's job, they're telling you they're not interested.

Depends on the woman I guess.  I have no problem telling a dude flat out that I'm not interested especially if he is persistent and I have done this in the past.  To me, just using an excuse such as work, only delays the inevitable and provides false hope and keeps the guy in limbo.  It's better to be firm and nice but upfront.

Women often try to "let a guy down gently" instead of just flat-out saying, "I'm not interested", and nowadays, one of the common tactics to do that is to say they're too busy on the job to date when interest is expressed.

Since you're not a woman, did you glean your observation from frequent first hand experience? Are most women you pursue turning you down?, If so then what is wrong with you?  What are you doing that is a turn off for these women? Someone once said, ("I'm quoting out of context here is that dishonest?)  Wherever you go, there you are... or something to this effect.  What's your success track record for getting the woman you want?

Of course, I didn't see you bashing MsH about her actions with the guy she was with. I didn't see you telling her how ending it with that guy was her "insidious way of implying that something must be wrong with the guy and he lacks the good judgment to appreciate her worthiness" or how she "seems to feel a man 'owes' it to her to reciprocate her interest

I didn't say those things to Ms. HB because she didn't say, "I guess he felt I wasn't worthy enough for him to spend time with me' which is what you said after the woman you wanted told you she was busy with her job.  Ms. HB said:

My parting words:  "No matter which one it was, you and this situation are not providing me with what I am looking for, so I'm out and moving on.  Thanks for the memories!"

She ended things because she wasn't happy with his behavior while they were 'actually involved in a relationship together' and she didn't belittle herself like you did, by saying she wasn't worthy of this dude's time.  She didn't go there.  But you did. 

You're the one who went on a self pitying-victim trip by saying, "I guess she thought I wasn't worth her spending time with me and that comes off as pathetic and you putting your own self down. And women looking for self confident men don't find that attractive at all.  Why do that to yourself.  Ms. HB's attitude was, NEXT, Your attitude was' self-victimization... Big difference.  But you'd have to be emotionally mature to see it. 

Ms HB didn't start questioning her self worth based on this dude's actions.  You on the other hand based your self-worth on whether this woman wanted to be with you and when she didn't, "You', not her, said that you weren't worthy of her time and therein lies the difference. 

I always think I'm worthy and if a dude doesn't want to be with me, then that's his choice.  I don't base my self-worth on what 'he thinks or what he wants or doesn't want.  If he doesn't want to be with me, then he just doesn't want to be with me.  My worthiness to him doesn't come into question.  To me it's just a situation of win some and lose some, and not a matter whether that person thinks I'm worthy of them or not.  Their opinion of my self-worth is not my concern.  

In your misguided attempt to compare your situation with Ms. HB's you are clearly missing the mark.  Unless you and this woman you wanted were actually involved in a relationship together (which from your posts say otherwise), your situation is totally different from that of Ms. HB so how can you even make a comparison? I would have done exactly as Ms. HB did and she did act appropriately.  Ms. HB was actually romantically involved with this guy in a relationship with him and as such, she had every right to 'expect' for this guy to spend time with her because that's what two people who are involved with each other do.   

You on the other hand said that you were 'interested in this woman' you didn't say that you were actually romantically involved with her.   She was someone you were friends with and someone you liked and 'wanted to get involved with her, but bottom line, you did not say that you two were actually romantically involved and as such, she did not 'owe' it to you to 'reciprocate your affection or to spend time with you the way you wanted.  Being her 'friend' isn't the same thing as being her 'boyfriend' however much you want it to be.  Boyfriends get priority over guy friends, (to some extent), fiances get even more priority and husbands just get it all hands down.  You never did answer whether or not you were actually involved? Were you? 

I have no reason to go against Ms. HB's action because I would have done the same exact thing.  If my guy whom I'm currently involved with suddenly stopped spending time with me in order to play video games and hang with the boys, he would be kicked to the curb too.  But we are in a relationship together and yes he owes it to me to spend time with me just as I owe it to him to spend time with him, that's the expectation people have when they are involved in a committed relationship with each other and are interested in growing the relationship towards something deeper.. you dig?    

This is the typical 'nice guy attitude and response that the "Why Nice Guys Suck and Women don't want you article talks about.  They get defensive when it comes to constructive criticism which is why "Nice guys' stay losers with women.  If they can't look into themselves and self-evaluate, they'll always be the 'nice guy' while the woman they want will just want to be friends with them.   They'll be the ones calling her up wishing her happy birthday, being friends with her family, hanging onto the peripheral of her life, taking what little crumbs of affection and attention they can get from her.  They'll be the ones watching her sail off into the sunset with the guy who she 'wants' to make time with despite her busy schedule.  Pathetic.

They'll wonder why they can't catch a break with women, but will never have sense enough to reflect on what's going on within themselves.  They're quick to think women 'male bash when they say something they don't want to hear.  They want to be mollycoddled because they have such extremely fragile egos.  They're too defensive, too emotionally immature, too whiny, too resentful, too... everything that any vibrant, attractive, confident, emotionally mature, intelligent, successful and sexy woman would NOT want in a man.  Women like this want Alpha men... 'nice guys without the edge don't have it going on like that and they will always be relegated to the 'friend status'. 

Probably someone who's dumb enough to think that (a) a perfect person actually exists and (b) the measuring stick of perfection is not having a kid or two or an STD.  I know those aren't beliefs I hold.

If you feel that way, then why post the remark in that other thread 'in context' about when you do find a woman ready to commit, she's been around the block maybe has kids and/or an STD or two?  According to how you think, a woman with a kid or two automatically disqualifies her from being a woman worth your time.

What exactly is your yardstick for measuring the woman who you think qualifies to be your "ideal mate?"
You want a woman to commit to you Mr. "Nice Guy" what qualities/traits, etc.. that you possess that would make a woman want to do that?  Where were you in this thread topic.. "Quality Hustand Material" 
  

That's to say nothing of the fact that what you quoted here (and without surrounding statements to establish context) is a general comment and not one specific to me - but it's already been made clear that integrity isn't your agenda here.

You act as though one has to quote an entire passage of what someone says otherwise they have compromised that person's original point and that is simply not the case here (whether you agree or not).  But since you've taken this stance, we'll see if you practice this in going forward.    Let's see if you refrain from posting excerpts of quotes, news articles, etc... You'll have to post the entire passage otherwise, (according to your logic),you are being intelletucally dishonest.  What I've done is no more than what has gone on throughout this forum.  People lift excerpts of what people have said all of the time.  But here is your entire paragraph quote.  It still doesn't change that one sentence. which (I highlighted) but even without highligting it, it stands alone and my excerpting this quote from you doesn't change what you've said in that phrase.  It still says the same thing with the surrounding sentences as it does without them.

And this has consequences for those of us who want committed relationships.  We run into women who are just looking for sexual hookups, or ones who don't know how to act when they find a guy who isn't looking to hop in the sack ASAP and thus do everything to self-destruct things, perhaps sub-consciously so.  We run into ones who ridicule us because we're looking for something better than just a sexual hookup.  We run into women who don't want a relationship because she thinks it's an either/or decision between a relationship and school/career.

Or, when we find a woman who's looking for more than just a roll in the hay, she's already been around the block and then some, and might even have a kid or two or an STD.

Then we also don't know what anything means anymore.  It used to be that getting a lady's number meant something, or that spending days/nights out with a fair amount of flirting and/or other little advances meant there was mutual interest; but now, lots of women will do those things and perhaps more, and the guy is just a "friend".  If the guy tells said woman how he feels, it's the end of the friendship.  Women insist on the man doing the chasing and at most giving little hints to indicate interest and see if he approaches; but because we've seen women do more than that and then say they don't want a relationship and weren't signaling a desire for one, we don't think they're showing any kind of interest.

At any rate, whatever... you can take it in or not... I've got mine and I'm very happy and he's taking me to Europe this summer!  Paris in the summer time!  I can't wait to gig in a jazz club there. 

[devineone]

If a woman is feeling a man all those limitations and challenges fade away. Women don't have time for men they aren't feeling.

This is true, I know I don't have time to waste mine with a guy who doesn't "do it" for me.  Life is just too short.  In my case though I'd just be honest about it.  I would'nt be mean but I'd get the message to him that I'm just not feeling him like that.  I wouldn't use excuses either.  It may not be what he wants to hear but it's better in the long run.

That way, the guy won't be hanging on my life trying to be 'friends' with me.  I can't be 'friends' with someone who want's to be with me romantically and I know for a fact that I'm not feeling romantic towards him.
I've tried to do that "friend thing" before and it always ends badly.  The guy would get his feelings hurt, sooner or later.   He'd try to slide back in there and try again several months down the line.  If I didn't want him earlier, I'm not going to want him later. It's better to tell them upfront so they can cut the emotional ties and move their affections onto someone else.

^{disclaimer...please forgive my only using part of your quote in my posts I'm not intentionally engaging in contextomy}

[devineone]

[Interruption of thread topic to ask a question]

BTW, Phil, sense you mentioned in your post that you noticed that I posted in other topic threads before going back and posting a month later my response to you in this one;  I've noticed that you've hardly posted in any of the topic threads that have to do with black concerns in the black community. 

When are you going to address some of these thread topics that talk about the social ills of the black community?  When are you going to shed your perspective as a white guy on these topic threads since you’re here?  Since I’ve been here you’ve been noticeably silent on a number of topic threads that deal with the social concerns in the black community.  Since you're in this forum, then why not shed some of your perspective on black concerns.  If you are attracted to black women and want to be involved with black women, surely you have some thoughts on matters that affect her world?  A man with your "education and intellect" ought to be able to share discourse on a number of topics and not always use your ‘time and energy’ to just narrowly focus and post about relationship issues.
C’mon man….where ya at on these topics?

Somalia and Pirates: The OTHER Side of the Story!

P. Diddy's Ad for Actors Bars Darker Skinned People

The Police Shooting of Oscar Grant «

Well Hush my mouth! The Republicans got them a black leader...

Controversial New York Post Cartoon depicts Obama as dead chimp

Debunking the flawed 70% out of wedlock birth statistic!

Nation's Blacks Creeped Out by All the White People Smiling At Them

The "thousands of other shootings of black folx by black folx" post

 How tolerant are you of racism?

Interracial couple murdered in the most brutal style

I swear to GOD if Tavis Smiley don't get the f#ck off my TV set...

Did somebody say Klan?

John McCain's BLACK Relatives

13 Year Old Gets 60 Years In Prison

How many more movies do I have to see...

Black and White stuff all over agian.

[ OK back to topic thread and posts discussion]

[philnation]

I think it's more a classic case of someone having such an obvious agenda

It wasn't about me having a personal agenda against you. That's not why I posted what I did.  I just felt sorry for you and how you can't seem to catch a break with the woman you want, and how you continue to dwell on what she said in her rejection of you and how you've belittled yourself based on what she said.

I simply brought it up in this thread because it was readily applicable to the discussion at hand, on the subject of making time for a mate.  You're the one who ran with it in a whole other direction that wasn't even relevant to the thread and made it about me instead of the subject at hand.

Look, I get it - you think I'm the scum of the earth, worse than even the Craigslist killer. It's okay for you to just be honest and admit that and get it over with

I don't think you're the scum of the earth, but apparantly You Do since you're the one who said this.  (Again transference, you're attempting to transfer/project how you think about yourself onto me). "Nobody can make you feel these things without your permission", (Eleanor Roosevelt's paraphrased quote taken out of context btw  ).

Oh please.  That's so obviously your opinion, for you to claim otherwise and try to push it off as just my true feelings about myself is disingenuous at best.     It would be better for you to just be honest about it instead of trying to justify it in such a lame and dishonest fashion and try to pass it off as "tough love".

Just in this thread alone, you've accused me of making "a judgmental assumption", you've accused me of bad-mouthing a woman for simply not being interested in me, and have castigated me as having "a bitter, resentful attitude against women".  And let's not forget that this isn't the first time you've gone down the personal attack road on here - in fact, in the thread you referenced, you said I "have a chip on (my) shoulder where women are concerned".

the thoughts of a complete stranger on the Internet aren't going to rock my world to its foundation.

BTW, when you pm'd me wanting to meet up with me last summer in NYC, I guess the fact that I was a complete stranger didn't bother you then huh.   Of course I said No.

I don't consider someone I've met in person and spent time with to be a complete stranger.  A person I've had nothing more than a little back-and-forth with on a message board and exchanged a message or two with is a little different.

Nope this doesn't kill me at all... I'm getting mine with the man I want to be with and who wants to be with me.  You're the one who is in the 'friend status'  when it seems you want to be something more. Is it killing you to settle for being a 'friend' to this woman and wishing her happy birthday, when you'd rather have something more going on with her?

Correction: wanted something more.  That's in the past now.

There are many people in my life I do little things like that for because I care about and value the people in my life immensely.  When I get a "thank you" for those things, it's a pretty nice feeling and certainly doesn't kill me.

That's to say nothing of the fact that what you quoted here (and without surrounding statements to establish context) is a general comment and not one specific to me - but it's already been made clear that integrity isn't your agenda here.

You act as though one has to quote an entire passage of what someone says otherwise they have compromised that person's original point and that is simply not the case here (whether you agree or not).  But since you've taken this stance, we'll see if you practice this in going forward.    Let's see if you refrain from posting excerpts of quotes, news articles, etc... You'll have to post the entire passage otherwise, (according to your logic),you are being intelletucally dishonest. 

If I quote part of a person's post or even part of a paragraph, I don't rip out a sentence right in the middle and put two sentences together to make them look like they were made back-to-back when they weren't.  That's a little different from just posting an introductory paragraph or two from an article and directing readers to a link for the rest of the story.

[philnation]

[Interruption of thread topic to ask a question]

Not that you really want an answer.  After all, I've made more posts on The Broiler than I have on the three dating forums combined - but we've already established that the facts don't matter to you.

And so much for your claim in another post that there was nothing personal earlier, as this post right here - on something completely irrelevant to the thread topic and that's all about me - shoots that right out the window.  You can try to deny it all you want, but it's as plain as day and you may as well be honest about it.

But if you must know, I actually contacted the county DA and the California Attorney General about the Oscar Grant killing and why the DA wasn't pursuing charges against his killer.  I also contacted the publisher of the New York Post about the cartoon and their non-apology after it.  I also recently contacted my representatives asking them to support a bill that would end the sentencing disparity between crack and powder cocaine.