Obesity in African Americans and Dating

[Legacy]

It's like asking me if I want my heart or my lungs.

No, it's more like asking you if you want an excellent heart and slightly defective lungs or if you want a slightly defective heart and excellent lungs.  Heart being pretty, Lungs being ugly in this case. Which is more important.  I know It'll be hard to get an answer from you on this one, but I'll keep pressing anyhow.   There is definitely a difference though.

Oh Yippie!!! I get to choose death by heart failure or lung failure. Brilliant.. 

UH, NEITHER! FOH! 

Legacy
What are the "different and greater set of needs that women have"?

What needs do men  have when choosing women in the long term?


Anyway, I was just curious.

Men = Sex, Support
Women  = Sex, Support, Finances, Security, etc + most have a greater psychological need for a relationship due to societal pressure &/or expectation.

For example... might it be that a lot of women don't object to larger size men because the  feel more secure with them? That's not a need have with women, therefore keep them size 16 chicas. I'm tight on that. Plus, there are more women than men.

Also, I don't know what all men need long term but for me "In short, an acceptably attractive, intelligent & personable woman."

And to further (I just saw the continuation of the topic), I agree with Legacy---the two are inseparable.  They go together.   

It doesn't matter how many times we say it. They're not listening. We all want Beyonce looks w/ Kelly Bundy's brains (or lack thereof) even though you just told a story about breaking up with a gorgeous woman who wasn't the sharpest pencil in the box. I dated a  sista that was fine as wine but her attitude was shytty. I had to put her thru the test & she failed miserably. Our first date we went dutch. After that, I took her out to dinner my treat. We then went to the movies dutch again & she got hot as fish grease. - LOL

I was like WOW!.. I see how this is gonna go. (Strike 1) She came to visit me on my b-day & I had to pay for dinner. I said, ok.. (Strike 2 - really she was out already but we talked & tried to go forward). We went out again. I paid for us to play games & an arcade/restaurant spot. After the money on the card was spent, I asked her to put some money on the card. She thru a hissy fit. Then she asked for me to pay for dinner. I did & graciously lost her number.

@ the ladyfolk:

Sorry to tell y'all. We're not just motivated by looks. Maybe you should LISTEN instead of telling us what all men want.

[Vance87]

Ladies I feel many of you have answered your questions before. Not specifically YOU ALL -just don't have proof- but collectively sisters on this forum and other mediums of exchange  have lamented on about what real men are. I've seen woman as a collective on this very site promote an image of a brother referenced the male aggression of various species as proof positive of why brothers should uphold and protect womanhood. The rationalization would be furthered applied in the realm of approaching woman(being the aggressor), paying for dates, running a household, marriage, etc..etc. all the responses had no problem "differentiating" the "real men" or "alpha types" from those who don't measure up. The implication being that men have a genetic disposition to "want" to do so (or he isn't a real man).

Why shouldn't such rationalization apply to this thread?

[Tru]

Personally I don't see how women could want anything different from men.  Do I want a good-looking guy with personality and  intellect?  Hell yes I do.  And I've stopped interacting with men when I found they were lacking in an area.  I don't think that makes me superficial tho.  I don't think it makes men superficial either.

I just don't like the fact that I got to choose between one or the other.  Why can't I have both? All three?  I've seen so many examples where women are encouraged not to look at the outside of a man but the inside in fear of ending up lonely because of holding out for the "perfect one".  Perfect doesn't mean there aren't any flaws, not to me anyway.  but that the person meets the criteria that you have.  I don't think it's too difficult to find someone who meets all 3 (looks, personality and intellect) cause as many has mentioned beauty is in the eyes of the beholder.  So if a man or women is attractive to you and possesses all the other qualities what's the issue?  That person may not fit my criteria or another but you can't hold that standard up to everybody.

Every person may not think that Beyonce has it all or that Denzel is the ideal.  For some if might be Forrest Whitaker or Brandy.

[Bambi eyes]

Legacy and Starchild, you’re really making this out to be harder to understand than it really is. Maybe you just don't want to pick, and that's fine too, but you can't honestly tell me you don't understand what I'm getting at.  

Nobody is asking you if you would accept a 5, nobody’s asking you if you’d completely do without one trait over the other, and nobody’s asking you (Legacy)  if you’d choose one death over the other .  What’s being asked here is simply this:

You have a Halle Berry (or whoever you personally think is slamming in the looks department) who in your mind and everyone elses,  it is obvious she would win the Miss America Beauty contest or very easily make the cover of Sports Illustrated by a landslide but who would have a hard time winning or coming in first place for lets say the Mother Theresa Soul of Grace award.

Then

You have a fairly pretty (not ugly), just FAIRLY PRETTY woman, who certainly wouldn’t win Miss America's Beauty contest or be on the cover of Sports Illustrated but might come in third or fourth place or be buried somewhere inside the magazine. However she would not only win this years Mother Theresa Soul of Grace Award, but is so full of inner beauty that she has already won next years award by a landslide also.

Get the picture... Good... Now...

Without settling, as Starchild said, since BOTH women have it going on, just one is stronger in one area than the other, who would you be more inclined to pick as your first woman of choice?  #1 with the smashing outer beauty and the only good enough inner beauty or # 2 with the award winning inner beauty, but only good enough outer beauty.  

It’s not a matter of giving up one for the other or having a 10/5 vs. a 5/10,  the question is if you had to choose which one would you go for first, the smashing beauty on the inside or the smashing beauty on the outside, again understanding that both are not severely lacking the other trait, but it's just not as prominent.  

Why is that so hard to answer?  Do you value inner beauty over outer beauty or outer beauty over inner beauty?    Would you prefer to wake up next to #1 or would you prefer to wake up next to #2.  Simple.  And Legacy, stop clowning , I’m dead serious here... pick one.  

[Tru]

I dated a  sista that was fine as wine but her attitude was shytty. I had to put her thru the test & she failed miserably. Our first date we went dutch. After that, I took her out to dinner my treat. We then went to the movies dutch again & she got hot as fish grease. - LOL

I was like WOW!.. I see how this is gonna go. (Strike 1) She came to visit me on my b-day & I had to pay for dinner. I said, ok.. (Strike 2 - really she was out already but we talked & tried to go forward). We went out again. I paid for us to play games & an arcade/restaurant spot. After the money on the card was spent, I asked her to put some money on the card. She thru a hissy fit. Then she asked for me to pay for dinner. I did & graciously lost her number.

See I just can't condone that.  It bothers me that women feel the need to still adapt to that way of thinking.  Both parties need to have a hand in making their date/relationship work.  Sorry Leg, she sucked.

Why do you hate relaxed hair.  Such a strong sentiment and judgement for a superficial way a woman wears her hair.  I don't particularly care for locks or dreads, but it's not a dealbreaker for me and I don't hate it.

If you were to meet a man who had locs or dreads fit all your standards, and is steadfast in keeping his look, would you turn him down?

I don't like men who have really long nails or really short nails.  I don't like men who have messed up teeth or wear gold fronts.  I don't know if that is really superficial.  It's a preference.  Deal breaker?  Not sure, depends on the severity.  And although the topic of a woman's hair has been addressed repeatedly ont his site, I can't blame a man if he don't like the way I wear my hair.  Move on to the next.  But if you meet a person a certain way who has no inclinations of chaging their appearance don't expect to do it for them.  And I'm not referring to those who could better themselves.  Just of those who look absolutely fine the way they are.

[Bambi eyes]

I just don't really find her all that attractive. She's clearly not ugly or unappealing but she just doesn't do much for me..

I did go check out Tocarra's pictures on google images... she's definitely not lacking in the looks department.  One thing that did stick out for me while viewing her pictures vs. Latifah's pictures is this:

Latifah probably doesn't do much for you as opposed to Tocarra because she's really not trying to. 

Here's what I mean...what I notice about Tocarra is she is most definitely trying to be the sex symbol and appear as sexually appealing as possible in her poses and in the clothes she wears. I believe there is one picture of her in there with her legs cocked wide open.   When I look at Latifah, it appears she is looking to show a different image of herself.  She's not big on showing the boobs and azz in the majority of her pics, she's not going out of her way to look sexually appealing to men, so really if you were to compare the two, I'd say, Tocarra may be more appealing to you because she's trying to be... that's clearly her focus as a model, to attract men and be beautiful to men. 

Latifah's focus is more on presenting the strong black woman image, the Queen, the woman who commands respect, without placing real emphasis on on her sexually appealing assets.  The camera puts emphasis on what each of them is trying to convey. One convey's, the  I'm sexy, I'm a model, I'm gorgeous,  idea and the other convey's I'm strong, I'm talented, I'm a Diva, I'm the Queen idea.

Looking at it from that perspective, I can clearly see why men in general (not just you) would find that Tocarra does it for them more so than Latifah.

In addition to that I think Tocarra is maybe two or three dress sizes smaller than Latifah.

[Legacy]

BE..

We're already answered that.. Give me 8/8/8 over 10/8/6 where 6 in unacceptable beauty, personality or intelligence. If they're unacceptable in any area, I am choosing neither for the long term. If it's 9/8/7 versus 8/9/7 versus 7/8/9.. It's a tossup. Can't say who I'd pick but who ever you feel the most comfortable with, get along with the best, & has the most positive orientation towards you will probably win out. In real life, it's never *that* close however.

Hell, I'd just let them mud wrestle for me. Winner takes all. HAHAHA!

And, the pictures you see of Tocarra *now* are not the pictures & images of her when she first hit the scene on America's Next Top Model. I had already peeped her before she got a little fame & embraced the idea of being a sex symbol. She's just a prettier girl than Latifah, period. Has nothing to do with trying to be a sex symbol vs strong black woman imagery. Jill Scott has never tried to be a sex symbol. She's definitely not "Hollywood" size & she's better looking that Latifah too.

[devineone]

If you were to meet a man who had locs or dreads fit all your standards, and is steadfast in keeping his look, would you turn him down?

I think I already stated that if I met a guy with dreads or locks it wouldn't be a dealbreaker even though I don't particulary prefer this look. 

[Bambi eyes]

We're already answered that.. Give me 8/8/8 over 10/8/6 where 6 in unacceptable beauty, personality or intelligence. If they're unacceptable in any area, I am choosing neither for the long term.

Nope... you missed it again .  Okay let's try it this way.

You got a 10/8 where 10 is inner beauty and 8 is outer beauty.

You got a 10/8 where 8 is inner beauty and 10 is outer beauty.


Let's leave out the intelligence quotient cause that really has absolutely nothing to do with inner beauty.  You can be smart as a whip and mean as satan.

Who do you pick if you absolutely had to pick one.  Neither is not an answer cause it doesn't work in this case... your on an island with only one of each type of woman and you absolutely have to choose one, who would you go for Legacy?  

Man this is harder than wrangling a wild boar....honestly .

Okay on the Latifah bit... afterall you should know what does it for you. LMAO!

[devineone]

Legacy and Starchild, you’re really making this out to be harder to understand than it really is. Maybe you just don't want to pick, and that's fine too, but you can't honestly tell me you don't understand what I'm getting at.  

Nobody is asking you if you would accept a 5, nobody’s asking you if you’d completely do without one trait over the other, and nobody’s asking you (Legacy)  if you’d choose one death over the other .  What’s being asked here is simply this:

You have a Halle Berry (or whoever you personally think is slamming in the looks department) who in your mind and everyone elses,  it is obvious she would win the Miss America Beauty contest or very easily make the cover of Sports Illustrated by a landslide but who would have a hard time winning or coming in first place for lets say the Mother Theresa Soul of Grace award.

Then

You have a fairly pretty (not ugly), just FAIRLY PRETTY woman, who certainly wouldn’t win Miss America's Beauty contest or be on the cover of Sports Illustrated but might come in third or fourth place or be buried somewhere inside the magazine. However she would not only win this years Mother Theresa Soul of Grace Award, but is so full of inner beauty that she has already won next years award by a landslide also.

Get the picture... Good... Now...

Without settling, as Starchild said, since BOTH women have it going on, just one is stronger in one area than the other, who would you be more inclined to pick as your first woman of choice?  #1 with the smashing outer beauty and the only good enough inner beauty or # 2 with the award winning inner beauty, but only good enough outer beauty.  

It’s not a matter of giving up one for the other or having a 10/5 vs. a 5/10,  the question is if you had to choose which one would you go for first, the smashing beauty on the inside or the smashing beauty on the outside, again understanding that both are not severely lacking the other trait, but it's just not as prominent.  

Why is that so hard to answer?  Do you value inner beauty over outer beauty or outer beauty over inner beauty?    Would you prefer to wake up next to #1 or would you prefer to wake up next to #2.  Simple.  And Legacy, stop clowning , I’m dead serious here... pick one.  

Give it up Bambi, you're not going to get a straight answer.  I know what you're asking but somehow the answer keeps coming back twisted.  I'll answer it for you if I were dealing with a guy.

If there there two guys in a room and one possessed great outer looks, of Hollywood Shemar Moore, Denzel Washington, and all of the handsome men that are paraded in front of the cameras as being the "adonis of modern day complete with material wealth, and all of that, but not so great personality or inner warmth, kindness, inner beauty, (not bad mind you, just not so great... tolerable)

And there was a man who was not as extremely handsome on the outside, he was far from a  OK, maybe a Forest Whitaker type and he wasn't as wealthy, but not hurting for money either, he had his finances together and he had greater inner beauty that far surpassed the extremely handsome rich guy whom would I choose?

I'd choose the latter, and not for those reasons that Legacy named.  I don't need a guy to depend on for pyschological emotional or financial support.  I've been self supporting for quite some time.  I'd choose someone who would best complement me and that goes far beyond the superficial.
 

[Bambi eyes]

If it's 9/8/7 versus 8/9/7 versus 7/8/9.. It's a tossup.

I see you added something to your original response.  Sigh... okay so it would be a tossup... not really a straight answer, but that's cool, I guess.

[devineone]

I'm not going to even get into the whole who pays on a date debate.  I think that is petty.  I will say that if a guy judges how a woman is based on if he has to pay, then it is best that they don't date because he has issues about money and that could become a bone of contention between them.

In all the time I've dated, that has never, ever, ever been an issue with me or the guys I dated.  None of the guys have put me through the "let me see if she'll pay for the check" test.

I'm a very generous woman and not just with who pays for something on a date.  I don't hinge everything down to $$$, but I wouldn't want to date a man who is preoccupied with who pays what and I certainly am not interested in stingy men.  I've dated guys where I've paid for activities that we shared because it was what I wanted to do not that it was expected and the guy has paid for activities as well.
i.e. dinner, movie, shows, ...

Fortunately that has not come up in my dating and I hope it never does.

[Legacy]

If it's 9/8/7 versus 8/9/7 versus 7/8/9.. It's a tossup.

I see you added something to your original response.  Sigh... okay so it would be a tossup... not really a straight answer, but that's cool, I guess.

Well, that's because it's not as simple as a math equation in real life.

What if the one with better looks has qualities of a good care giver & has strong family  values (if you're thinking family)? One if the one with a better personality shares of one you favorite interests? Etc.

I mean, for all intents & purposes, this is a theoretical exercise but in application you hardly ever find a situation where 2 or more people are that close & there are a host of other factors.

I'm not going to even get into the whole who pays on a date debate.  I think that is petty.  I will say that if a guy judges how a woman is based on if he has to pay, then it is best that they don't date because he has issues about money and that could become a bone of contention between them.

In all the time I've dated, that has never, ever, ever been an issue with me or the guys I dated.  None of the guys have put me through the "let me see if she'll pay for the check" test.

I'm a very generous money and it doesn't always come down to $$$ but I wouldn't want to date a man who is occupied with who pays what and I certainly am not interested in stingy men.  I've dated guys where I've paid for activities that we shared because it was what I wanted to do not that it was expected and the guy has paid for activities as well.
i.e. dinner, movie, shows, ...

Fortunately that has not come up in my dating and I hope it never does.

*sniff sniff*

What's that I smell? BULLSHYT? YEP!

If you don't care who pays on a date then why be opposed to paying for your dinner & let him pay for his while determining if you want to continue to see each other? No harm no foul right? No unwarranted expectations right? You don't owe him anything & he doesn't owe you anything right?

Trust me, you can learn A LOT about a woman's objectivity & mindset buy asking her to go dutch or pay for a date. Did you read my example in this post? - LOL

I love how men who ask women to do what most men are *expected* to do are labeled stingy. A man asking for a fair & equal scenario is stingy, cheap, etc? Ok, then what is the woman who refuses to pay for the food SHE ORDERED & ATE? - LOL

Do you believe in true male/female equality or do you , like a lot of women, believe in convenient equality?

[devineone]

Lol.  "underground beauty"--I just made that up myself.  I figured since everyone talks about "hollywood/ mainstream" ideals of beauty, I would make a term to describe something different from that.  I.e., not a Beyonce/ Halle/ Alicia/ Gabrielle type beauty---something else.   

As for my ex, I don't know how to explain her dumbness.  Like I said, she was sooo sweet, but she was just a complete moron.  I wondered how she had managed to survive for so long.  It wasn't book smarts stuff- she had a college degree and all that.  It was just that talking to her became a chore after a while because everything had to be explained to her, and she just didn't get anything.  Ever.   She felt like a little sister--I was always looking out for her and taking care of her, and not in the normal bf/gf way, but like she just couldn't take care of herself.  She was 2 years younger than me, but I felt like I was dating a teenager.  Some of it may have been because she was very sheltered growing up--but I wanted to date a woman, not a girl, so she had to go.

Interesting character traits you described about your ex.  My brother divorced his wife after 4 years for similiar reasons.  She was about 4 years younger and he said he felt frustrated with her personality.  She was very moody, would cry at the drop of a hat.  If they went out to a party, she'd be extremely jealous of him and sit in a corner and watch him.  He couldn't relate to her, she didn't get a lot of what he was saying or where he was coming from.  I spent time with them, they'd visit me, and I'd go and visit them and yeah, she did like to cry, pout and just be a wet blanket for no reason.  

He married her after barely knowing her for 8 months despite me and my older sister telling him to wait. (They both were in the military.  He later told me that when he first met her, she was fine as hell with an azz like Janet Jackson, she was a fitness coach and was stacked!!!  I told him, aah, I get it, all the blood rushed to the little head, which left none for the big head to think.  He didn't like my saying that, but he later conceded that he did make a mistake in marrying her.

At any rate, they've both moved on with their lives and are involved with other people.
That's good that you saw the relationship wasn't working for you and ended it.  Ultimately I think we want someone who is compatible with us on more than superficial levels, however, (having 4 brothers), I know the superficial levels often take precedence... at first.

[devineone]

If it's 9/8/7 versus 8/9/7 versus 7/8/9.. It's a tossup.

.

.

*sniff sniff*

What's that I smell? BULLSHYT? YEP!

If you don't care who pays on a date then why be opposed to paying for your dinner & let him pay for his while determining if you want to continue to see each other? No harm no foul right? No unwarranted expectations right? You don't owe him anything & he doesn't owe you anything right?

I love how men who ask women to do what most men are *expected* to do are labeled stingy. A man asking for a fair & equal scenario is stingy, cheap, etc? Ok, then what is the woman who refuses to pay for the food SHE ORDERED & ATE? - LOL

Do you believe in true male/female equality or do you , like a lot of women, believe in convenient equality?

Sniff all you like Legacy, no BS, I'm just telling you about how I am.  This issue hasn't come up in my dating experience.  I'm not out on a date thinking about male or female equality at all.  I'm just enjoying his company and he mine, when the bill comes I do reach for my wallet because I don't assume he'll pay for anything and the guy has always paid.
I will say though if a guy asks me out for the first time and the meal comes and he wants to go dutch, that would give me pause to think about where this guy is coming from.