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MsHeartBeat
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« on: April 27, 2008, 10:37:51 PM »

that most men are clueless when it comes to women?
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« Reply #1 on: April 28, 2008, 07:23:36 AM »

I think its because most women don't have a clue themselves ROFLMAO!
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« Reply #2 on: April 28, 2008, 08:04:52 AM »

I can't speak for most men, but I can tell this story about this one man.  He was bragging to us about how good his wife was to him.  About how she cooks for him, makes sure his clothes are clean, how she helps him out (He's in school) with his books, how she takes such good care of him.  He was just puffed up with pride.

So I asked him, what do you do for your wife?  He looked at me with this confused, blank stare on his face.  As if to say, "What I'm supposed to do something for her besides just "be me"? 

Meanwhile, the wife is complaining about how little he does for her, yet she proudly and happily does for him.   In this case, I say this man is self centered and shallow.  He thinks his wife is there for "his purpose".  His motto was "Ask not what you can do for your wife, but tell her how much you want her to do for you." 

He thinks his primary purpose to being in the relationship is sexing her up in bed, but beyond that, he offers very little of himself.  The wife has spoiled him and set this pattern and all she does is complain because she loves the sex and in her mind that's just how the relationship is supposed to go.  'Happiness in bed, unhappiness out of it".  Meanwhile the guy gets happiness in bed and out of it".

I think in his case, he lacks emotional maturity, and sensitivity.  He lacks the ability to self-reflect and put his wife's feelings above his own.  He was spoiled by his mother and grandmother, so in his mind his wife is supposed to spoil him too.

Sad man, pretty sad.
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« Reply #3 on: April 28, 2008, 09:48:16 AM »

Women need to communicate their needs more. If the man isn't willing to have a conversation about the woman's needs than the said woman should get a new man. Some men are jerkoffs though no amount of communcation save some of us lol.
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« Reply #4 on: April 28, 2008, 10:08:05 AM »

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Women need to communicate their needs more.

But II, many times that gets women labeled as high maintenance, needy, bitchy, or too dependent.  My strategy is to communicate the need once and ONLY once. If he doesn't hear it or tries to ignore it, I decide how important it is to me that I get what I want and based on the level of importance, I either drop it or drop him.  Life's too short to be reiterating shyt over and over and over again and waiting for someone to come around.

Usually what happens is once it's over and you've made up your mind, they then want to clean out their ears and hear you... Nope, too late Kiss... "never miss the water till the well runs dry."
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devineone
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« Reply #5 on: April 28, 2008, 10:14:38 AM »

Women need to communicate their needs more. If the man isn't willing to have a conversation about the woman's needs than the said woman should get a new man. Some men are jerkoffs though no amount of communcation save some of us lol.
I think women do communicate their needs, but guys ain't trying to hear what women say because it's not something they want to address or do something about.  Then the woman goes sullen and becomes disgruntled and that will manifest itself in the relationship.  Before the man realizes it, the woman has either left or has become so miserable, she's made the man miserable and the relationship starts to suffer.  Then the man starts to blame the woman.  "How come you're acting like this, whatz up with you?".  He can't see that this is the result of the seeds of lack of communication and an unwillingness for him to do his part to be reciprocal in the relationship. 

He only pays attention, when "his needs" are no longer getting met, that's when he sees that something is wrong.  As Bambi said, no one has time to keep repeating stuff.  It's time to move on, and by the time the guy realizes it and is ready to come around, the woman is no longer interested, or if she's still there she is so resentful, that it's hard to trust the guy to do right by her after ignoring her for so long. 

A woman shouldn't have to "beg and plead" with a man to get a clue.  He doesn't have a clue because he "chooses" not to have one.  He can decifer the toughest hieroglyphics, should his job call for it, so surely he can apply that same nimble sharp mind to get a clue for his SO.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2008, 11:47:54 AM by devineone » Logged

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« Reply #6 on: April 28, 2008, 11:17:24 AM »

A woman shouldn't have to "beg and plead" with a man to get a clue.  He doesn't have a clue because he "chooses" not to have one.

I think this statement says a lot.

Most men aren't dating the woman they want to marry. So there isn't an importance placed on "her" needs or feelings. The woman I am dating now doesn't have to tell me what her needs are I'm always asking her questions. If she needed me to fly to Alaska to pick up some fish for dinner I would do it because thats my baby  Grin
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« Reply #7 on: April 28, 2008, 11:38:34 AM »

A woman shouldn't have to "beg and plead" with a man to get a clue.  He doesn't have a clue because he "chooses" not to have one.

I think this statement says a lot.

Most men aren't dating the woman they want to marry. So there isn't an importance placed on "her" needs or feelings. The woman I am dating now doesn't have to tell me what her needs are I'm always asking her questions. If she needed me to fly to Alaska to pick up some fish for dinner I would do it because thats my baby  Grin
What about the married men who don't have a clue, what about the guys with fiances who don't have a clue.  While I do agree with you to a certain extent, I wouldn't say that a man's marital status in and of itself is the only reason a guy doesn't have a clue.
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« Reply #8 on: April 28, 2008, 12:29:53 PM »

I think it all falls on communication. Men or women who don't have a clue are probably poor communicators! Maybe the question should be why do good women and men stay in relationships with people who don't have a clue on how to communicate?
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« Reply #9 on: April 28, 2008, 12:39:48 PM »

I think it all falls on communication. Men or women who don't have a clue are probably poor communicators! Maybe the question should be why do good women and men stay in relationships with people who don't have a clue on how to communicate?
I hear you II, good point.  I think I'd rephrase the question to say,
What is the purpose (It's more objective to ask "what questions" than "why because "why's never really get you anywhere, people can come up with reasons all day long).  Anyway...What purpose does it serve for man or a woman to stay in a relationship where their needs are not being met. 

I think a man or a woman can "communicate" their needs all day long, but if their SO is ignoring their communication, then we have a bigger problem.
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« Reply #10 on: April 28, 2008, 08:02:03 PM »

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Maybe the question should be why do good women and men stay in relationships with people who don't have a clue on how to communicate?

ITA. More people need to walk.
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« Reply #11 on: April 28, 2008, 09:52:57 PM »

II,
Hittin the nail on the head as usual.  Why is it that women so often ask these presumptive questions?  The same reason they presume that their non-verbal communications are understood by anyone other than themselves?  What did Rev. Wright say last night, "Different does not mean deficient"   Men  tend to communicate differently than women do.  We are much simpler.  As Bobby Womack said, "If I want a glass of water, I'll say, 'I'm thirsty, can I have a glass of water?'"  None of this "if he knew me, he'd know what I meant/wanted/thought/liked/needed..."   

Women often think that they are communicating clearly, when it reality what they do is drop hints, say vague/ambiguous things, and play games to see if he can figure her out.  WOmen often expect/presume other people to pick up on the hidden meanings of what they do/don't do or say/don't say by their body language, tone, slight pauses, sighs, gestures, posture, etc.   Some people just decide that if you're an adult and big enough to have shyt to say, you should just come on out and say it.  My mother told me a story about when she and my dad first got married (40 years ago) and she was doing some old expecting him to read her mind type shyt, and he didn't get it.  She says she sat in the house crying and he was outside under the car---meanwhile, my dad is one of the sweetest, most loving people you could ever meet.  He loves my mother to death and would do anything for her, but he is BAD at picking up non-verbal clues. Even I can see how bad he is at that.  Once she got that through her head, everything was copacetic.  So while it may be annoying to have to spell some things out, you can learn to communicate more effectively in a way that your partner understands, and be happy, or you can sit home alone and be secure in your knowledge that if your man really cared about you he would read your mind.
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« Reply #12 on: May 02, 2008, 08:22:37 AM »

Because we are just a hole to many of them, would you care about a hole's feelings, hopes, dreams.....
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« Reply #13 on: May 02, 2008, 08:41:42 AM »

II,
Hittin the nail on the head as usual.  Why is it that women so often ask these presumptive questions?  The same reason they presume that their non-verbal communications are understood by anyone other than themselves?  What did Rev. Wright say last night, "Different does not mean deficient"   Men  tend to communicate differently than women do.  We are much simpler.  As Bobby Womack said, "If I want a glass of water, I'll say, 'I'm thirsty, can I have a glass of water?'"  None of this "if he knew me, he'd know what I meant/wanted/thought/liked/needed..."   

Women often think that they are communicating clearly, when it reality what they do is drop hints, say vague/ambiguous things, and play games to see if he can figure her out.  WOmen often expect/presume other people to pick up on the hidden meanings of what they do/don't do or say/don't say by their body language, tone, slight pauses, sighs, gestures, posture, etc.   Some people just decide that if you're an adult and big enough to have shyt to say, you should just come on out and say it.  My mother told me a story about when she and my dad first got married (40 years ago) and she was doing some old expecting him to read her mind type shyt, and he didn't get it.  She says she sat in the house crying and he was outside under the car---meanwhile, my dad is one of the sweetest, most loving people you could ever meet.  He loves my mother to death and would do anything for her, but he is BAD at picking up non-verbal clues. Even I can see how bad he is at that.  Once she got that through her head, everything was copacetic.  So while it may be annoying to have to spell some things out, you can learn to communicate more effectively in a way that your partner understands, and be happy, or you can sit home alone and be secure in your knowledge that if your man really cared about you he would read your mind.
Objection.  I would preface this statement with "Some" women because not all women play these passive agressive games.  I am a woman who shoots straight from the hip.  I say what I want.  I communicate my thoughts.  Now the problem comes when a woman does these things and the guys still "don't get it".  Why is it then that guys don't have a clue?  When the woman comes out and says what's on her mind, and the guy is still clueless, what's his excuse then?

At the same time, I am good on picking up vibes, nuances, nonverbal clues, and body language.  Maybe women are just made that way by nature after all they are the nurturers and caretakers so they "have" to be able to "read" an infant who can't communicate verbally for the first 2 years of their life.

I disagree that men are all that "different".  They can pick up on subtle nuances should the situation call for it.  In a professional setting, I'll bet they can pick up on vibes just as well as a woman can.  Hell, men can play poker all day long and pick up body language, non verbal clues. However it seems something happens when it comes to them picking up these subtle nuances with their SO.  Something happens that seems to turn the guy off when it comes to his willingness to apply these same abilities to his SO.  It almost seem as though they raise the bar for their SO and hold them to a higher standard, or maybe they have a lower threshold of tolerance for dealing with nonverbal communication when it comes to their SO.

Yet all day long in other areas of their lives, work, hobbies, other interest... they can pick up on nonverbal cues, as well as any woman.  So I don't buy into that men are so different than women that their ability to pick up on nonverbal cues is vastly underdeveloped.

That's like that ADHD arguments that some parents like to use when they say their child can't focus enough to take notes in class so he needs some alternative assistance.  Yet this same child can focus like a mofo, when it comes to doing what "he/she wants to do. 

Some of this could be with some men, they deliberatly act obtuse when it comes to not having a clue, especially if they suspect they are in the wrong about something.  I do think that women shouldn't pout, act sullen or engage in passive agressive behavior when they have issues with their SO because that doesn't resolve anything.  In fact it just blows the issues up bigger.

However, men also act out PA.  In my experience, guys can act just as PA (the way Starchild described) as women.  Instead of discussing what's on their mind, they'll shut down, wall up, act distant, and act out.  Yet they'll still want sex after shutting the woman out all day.  I abhor PA  behavior.  While women have the reputation for engaging in it more than men, I'd say men can be just as bad.  PA behavior in communication is destructive.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2008, 08:56:45 AM by devineone » Logged

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« Reply #14 on: June 09, 2008, 04:58:38 PM »

I can only speak for myself but some women need to say what they mean.  I read newspapers but not minds!  Like someone else already posted, communication is the key.  This can go both ways though.
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