Does "Nice Guy" = sexually inexperienced?

[devineone]

A bunch of my girlfriends and I met at our favorite Thai restaurant with a downstairs bar for Happy Hour and karaoke.  The conversation as usual eventually came around to guys. This time it was  nice guys vs. the not so nice guys who dogged us out.  One friend said something that sort of stood out.  She had been in an on again off again relationship with a guy who has put her through the ringer.  She told us that she is finally going to end things with him for good for which we were all happy for her. 

I asked her why did she stay with him as long as she did? (3 years).  She said mainly because he was so good in bed.  I said, “I’m sure you can find a nice guy who is good in bed”.  A few of my friends rolled their eyes and laughed at my comment.  One said, “Girl please, nice guys aren’t good in bed they’re too “nice’ to know how to put the moves on a woman and most of them aren’t interested in learning how.” Most of the other women nodded in agreement. 

It made me wonder though. Are "nice guys" generally known for not being good in bed as far as having the sexual techniques to please a woman? 
Are bad guys" known for their sexual prowess in how to put the “right moves on a woman and have her hooked sexually even if he is emotionally dogging her out?  

When I think back over my own experiences sure enough I realized that the guy who dogged me out emotionally was really great in bed.  The 'nice guys" I've dated previously weren't all that exciting sexually and this ranged from them not knowing how to kiss to well...  When I tried to at least show them how to kiss, they were very sensitive and offended and one guy told me it was obvious I had TOO much experience because I knew too much.  He expected me to put up with his lack of technique because he was a "great catch' because he was a nice guy.  Everybody in the community thought so.  (That was my ex-fiancé ).

While I'm asking, we've talked about what makes a guy a "bad guy" but what makes a guy a "nice guy"? 

Why can't a nice guy have it all, the niceness and the sexual prowess?  Does it usually have to be a one or the other situation? 

Just wonderin...   This will give me some insight to share at my next get together with the girls. 

[cool breeze]

You are wrong for this topic, Devineone..Those poor nice guys just can't seem to get a break..

Why can't a nice guy have it all, the niceness and the sexual prowess?

Bad boys aren't better at sex--they just get more practice than most of the nice guys cause the nice guys don't date as many women usually as the bad boys do..

Speaking as a "Nice Guy With an Edge", I always wanted a woman that was able to match my sexual energy..I'm nice but I ain't no monk--I love sex..I would just rather it be with a woman that I really cared about and not some one night stand "hit it and quit it"  type deal..

I'm nice because I never believed in dogging women out, however, I do believe in turning women out.. You gotta have a little swagger and confidence in yourself--some testosterone in your game..Most of the women who cheated on me were greedy, not needy..They just weren't built to be faithful to one man..Age may have been a factor as well as it seems that young women are more prone to cheat than fully grown women..Looking back, it was actually for the best..I'm not the type of cat that needs that kind of drama in his life..I'm not gonna be hiding in some bushes watching for your car at some other dude's house--NEXT!!

Now, if a woman has gotta give a guy kissing lessons and he's not willing to at least try to upgrade his skills? That tells me that he really ain't that into pleasing her..That's also where the bad boy separates himself from the nice guys in the pack--he'll take that criticism and he'll be okay with it and try to do whatever it takes to please that woman sexually..The fact that he also has some other fish to fry also lessens the sting to his ego..That's one woman's opinion and we all know the average bad boy ain't just dealing with one woman.. So, it looks like the solution is for the nice guys to date more women as well..

Nice guys need to be men and say later to all the nice guy stuff..Now, do I want them to dog women out? No, but it's okay to date more than one woman a year you know..And there are cats out here that think that dating multiple woman is a sin--it ain't..A good man needs to be dating five or six women at a time  ..

The bad boys often have the pick of the litter because they ain't really got no competition..In dating, men do the approaching and women do the choosing..More nice guys need to get off the sidelines and get into the game..

[devineone]

You are wrong for this topic, Devineone..Those poor nice guys just can't seem to get a break..

I don't mean to come down on the 'nice guys' rather just raise a topic and hopefully gain some insight.    I'm wondering if my experiences and those of my girlfriends reflect what’s happening at large out there in the social scene regarding this topic.

Bad boys aren't better at sex--they just get more practice than most of the nice guys cause the nice guys don't date as many women usually as the bad boys do..

I guess practice can often times bring one closer to perfection in whatever they are practicing. 

I remember snooping through my brothers room once and found some "instructional porn'.  They were in their teens at the time.  In this day and age, with all of the instructional material out there, I find it hard to believe that a nice guy can't at least have the basics down when he does get the opportunity to date a woman.  What he brings to the table can make all the difference between a one off date, to a date that leads to something more.  Even if a guy doesn't date as often as the "bad guys' what's wrong with him learning some skills in the meantime just in case?   

Not all guys are into dating multiple women at the same time.  I'm not into dating mulitple guys at the same time, I've done it but it just doesn't really work for me.  Nothing wrong with it though.  However I do have some "skills' and I am attuned to the person I'm with.  I at least come to the date "prepared"...more than prepared.   I'm the nice girl with the edge too.    We need more of the nice guys with the edge like you CB.  If nice guys could get that part together, these bad boys wouldn't stand a chance. 

Now, if a woman has gotta give a guy kissing lessons and he's not willing to at least try to upgrade his skills? That tells me that he really ain't that into pleasing her..That's also where the bad boy separates himself from the nice guys in the pack--he'll take that criticism and he'll be okay with it and try to do whatever it takes to please that woman

This is true.  If a guy can't kiss then most likely he can't do something else right and I'm not trying to go there to find out.  After all kissing is making love to the mouth, which is an opening too. If he doesn't have the right touch there, then chances are, he doesn't have the right touch somewhere else.  There's no need for that, when the internet is full of kissing techniques. 
"How to French Kiss".   Kissing - Perfect Your Kissing Technique!

Then you got the guys with all of these sexual hangups/inhibitions.  They want to be with a woman but they don't want to do certain things sexually.   So a woman ends up with a nice guy because she recognizes and appreciates his nice qualities, but why does it have to be at the expense of her sexual satisfaction? 

As a woman who has gone through being with a "nice guy" who lacked sexual skills I can honestly say I'd rather not go through that again!

[Ndgo]

Unless a "Nice Guy" can "Put his back into it" when it comes to women, he's always going to get rejected and looked over. Nobody wants a lame, push-over, clingy, whinny, limped wrist sort of guy that a girl has to prop up all the darn time.... CB you might be right that other guys MIGHT get more practice in the sack that your average, run of the mill Nice Guy... BUT I think some root cause analysis points elsewhere for this guy's problem... No amount of practice is going to make a lame, insecure guy an aggressive tiger hunting down his woman.... Everything worth having REQUIRES work... Nice guys fail to put in the time to study women and see how we operate. Lazy, boring duds don't want to put in any effort... they feel that by their very presence that woman ought to just lay down and open up their legs... forgettabout it!    I even find talking about those losers annoying...

ANYWAY, here's one of my favorite articles that breaks it down about these so-called Nice Guys... aka LOSERS

Why "Nice Guys" are often such LOSERS
You hear it all the time: "He was such a NICE Guy, and she's such a Heartless beyatch for dumping him."

I get letters from self-professed Nice Guys, complaining that women must WANT to be treated like shit, because THEY, the "Nice Guy" have failed repeatedly in relationships. This is akin to the false logic that "Whales are mammals. Whales live in the sea. Therefore, all mammals live in the sea."

If you have one bad relationship after another, the only common denominator is YOU. Think about it.

What's wrong with Nice Guys?

Nice Guys exude insecurity -- a big red target for the predators of the world. There are women out there who are "users" -- just looking for a sucker to take advantage of. Users home-in on "Nice Guys", stroke their egos, take them for a ride, add a notch to their belts, and move on. It's no wonder so many Nice Guys complain about women being horrible, when the so often the kind of woman that gets attracted to them is the lowest form of life...

Self-confident, caring, decent-hearted women find "Nice Guys" to be too clingy, self-abasing, and insecure.

Nice Guys go overboard. They bring roses to a "lets get together for coffee" date. They try to buy her affections with presents and fancy things. They think they know about romance, but their timing is all wrong, and they either come-on too strong, too hard and too fast, OR, they are so shy and unassertive, that they hang around pretending to be "friends", in the hope that somehow, someway, they will get the courage up to ask her out for a "date".

They are so desperate to please that they put aside their own needs, and place the object of their desire on a pedestal. Instead of appreciating her, they worship her. We are only human, and pedestals are narrow, confining places to be -- not to mention the fact that we tend to fall off of them.

They cling to her, and want to be "one" with her for fear that if she is out of sight, she may disappear or become attracted to someone else. A Nice Guy often has trouble with emotional intimacy, because he believes that if she learns about the REAL person inside, she will no longer love him.

Nice Guys are always asking HER to make the decisions. They think it's being equitable, but it puts an unfair burden of responsibility on her, and gives him the opportunity to blame her if the decision was an unwise one.

Nice Guys rarely speak up when something bothers them, and rarely state clearly what it is they want, need and expect. They fear that any kind of conflict might spell the end of the relationship. Instead of comprimising and negotiating, they repeatedly "give in". When she doesn't appreciate their sacrifice, they will complain that, "Everything I did, I did for her.", as if this somehow elevates them to the status of martyrs. A woman doesn't want a martyr. She wants an equal, caring, adult partner.

Nice Guys think that they will never meet anyone as special as she is. They use their adoration as a foundation for claiming that "no one will ever love her as much as I do." Instead of being a profound statement of their devotion, this is a subtle, but nasty insult. It is akin to saying to her: "You are a difficult person, and only *I* can ever truly love you, so be thankful I'm here."

The nice guy -needs- to believe that he is the best person for the object of his desires, because otherwise his insecurities will overrun him with jealousies and fear. The truth of the matter is that there are many people out there who can be a good match for her. We rarely stop loving people we truly care about. Even if we no longer continue the relationship, the feelings will continue... But love isn't mutually exclusive. We can (and do) love many people in our lives, and romantic love is really no different. Though he may love her immensely, there will likely be other people who have loved her just as much in her past, and will love her just as much in the future. The irony of it all is: "Who would want to go out with someone who was inherintly unlovable anyways?"

More than loving the woman in his life, a Nice Guy NEEDS her. "She is my Life, my only source of happiness..." YECH! What kind of a burden is that to place on her? That SHE has to be responsible for YOUR happiness? Get a grip!

Another mistake Nice Guys make is to go after "hard luck" cases. They deliberately pick women with neuroses, problems, and personality disorders, because Nice Guys are "helpers". A Nice Guy thinks that by "helping" this woman, it will make him a better, more lovable person. He thinks it will give him a sense of accomplishment, and that she will appreciate and love him more, for all his efforts and sacrifice. He is usually disappointed by the results.

This ultimately boils down to the fact that Nice Guys don't like themselves. Is it any wonder women don't like them? In order to truly love someone else, you must first love yourself. Too often Nice Guys mistake obsession for "love".

Get this Guys: INSECURITY ISN'T SEXY. IT'S A TURNOFF.

You don't have to be an ego-inflated, arrogant jerk. You just have to LIKE yourself. You have to know what you want out of life, and go after it. Only then will you be attractive to the kind of woman with whom a long-term relationship is possible.

[devineone]

I asked her why did she stay with him as long as she did? (3 years).  She said mainly because he was so good in bed.

  Ah I have to laugh with my friend. I know what she's going through.  I've been down that road before... great sex, not so great guy.   I'm hoping she meets a guy like CB, a nice guy with the 'edge'. 

I sent her this link when I got home later that night. I told her I hope she can stay away from this guy this time.  I think Alicia Myers summed it up best!
"Just Can't Stay Away".

[cool breeze]

Unless a "Nice Guy" can "Put his back into it" when it comes to women, he's always going to get rejected and looked over. Nobody wants a lame, push-over, clingy, whinny, limped wrist sort of guy that a girl has to prop up all the darn time.... CB you might be right that other guys MIGHT get more practice in the sack that your average, run of the mill Nice Guy... BUT I think some root cause analysis points elsewhere for this guy's problem... No amount of practice is going to make a lame, insecure guy an aggressive tiger hunting down his woman.... Everything worth having REQUIRES work... Nice guys fail to put in the time to study women and see how we operate. Lazy, boring duds don't want to put in any effort... they feel that by their very presence that woman ought to just lay down and open up their legs... forgettabout it!    I even find talking about those losers annoying...

Ndgo you are wrong.. It's funny and true, but you are still wrong..

But seriously, when you point out that anything worth having requires work, that's the elephant in the room that most nice guys overlook..It's not gonna get brought to you on a silver platter--you're gonna have to get out there and do some work to get what you want..Just because you're a nice guy, it doesn't mean that women are gonna throw themselves at you and you won't have to do anything but pick the finest one from the bunch..

Men do the approaching, women do the choosing..It's been like that for a couple of centuries..Nice guys need to realize that most women aren't going to approach a man--no matter how nice he appears to be..That's the man's job--to approach the woman..I'll say it again: It's your job as a MAN to approach the woman..

The nice guys says it sucks to have to approach women and that women have all the power..Yeah, just like sucks to be a woman and have to wait on some of these yahoos..The woman gives signals that she wants them to come over and dude never gets the hint unless she hits him over the head with a large neon sign..I mean, some cats want the woman to do everything..Sheesh..

I guess somebody out there is gonna make a zillion dollars when they come up with an almost foolproof system for the guys scared of women rejecting them..Body language seems to be the answer..I would use eye contact..If a woman gave me the look--then it was time to move in..

But sometimes I would see a woman and think that she was cute and I would just introduce myself..I would just roll the dice, man..

I know that rejection hurts, but everybody gets rejected..It ain't just you, Nice Guy..But if you're going to roll up to Ndgo, you better have bullet proof game..

[devineone]

Getting back to the crux of the topic, " sexual experience" or lack thereof when it comes to most nice guys without "the edge".
Although I prefer if a guy makes the first move, I do like nice guys and won't be turned off completely if I saw a "nice guy' eyeing me up but afraid to approach.  I'll approach him and hopefully we'll get the ball rolling.

Some of my previous experiences before now, have been the nice guys I've dated only to find out they lack "skills' and have so many darn hangups about sex.  They can't kiss, they can't halfway well you know what.... worth a darn.  I mean c'mon what are these guys doing all of this time?  It's a complete turn off for me to date a guy, for an extended time, then when we start to get to the physical stage at some point, he comes to the table fumbling around with very little knowlege and too sensitive and inhibited to learn and will catch a "tude if you try to teach them something.   

This is what my friends talked about too.   Yet these same guys can go and study a how to manual backwards and forwards on something that they find of interest to them, but they expect a woman to be OK with their lack of sexual technique.  She's supposed to be glad to have them because they're nice guys. 

I'm not saying a guy has to go out there and have sex with every woman in order to get practice, but a lot can be learned by reading, and watching instructional video or something.  I mean darn.  Some of these guys need to get a clue.  They don't even know how the female sexual anatomy works. 

[cool breeze]

I mean c'mon what are these guys doing all of this time?  It's a complete turn off for me to date a guy, for an extended time, then when we start to get to the physical stage at some point, he comes to the table fumbling around with very little knowlege and too sensitive and inhibited to learn and will catch a "tude if you try to teach them something.   

This is what my friends talked about too.   Yet these same guys can go and study a how to manual backwards and forwards on something that they find of interest to them, but they expect a woman to be OK with their lack of sexual technique.  She's supposed to be glad to have them because they're nice guys. 

Great post, Devinone..Some of these nice guys think that being "nice" is enough..They have a backwards attitude when it comes to women and sex..In other words, these are the guys who are still clamoring for women to be virgins..They figure the less experienced a woman is the less work they will have to do in the bedroom..Some of these guys are lazy and have a sense of entitlement because they're "nice"..

Now, with all the sex manuals and how to videos and other stuff out there, ain't no reason out there for cats to still be "fumbling" around..I mean, that's the kind of thing that happens to high schoolers, not grown men..

[devineone]

They have a backwards attitude when it comes to women and sex..In other words, these are the guys who are still clamoring for women to be virginsNow, with all the sex manuals and how to videos and other stuff out there, ain't no reason out there for cats to still be "fumbling" around..I mean, that's the kind of thing that happens to high schoolers, not grown men..

CB from what I've heard it's sad to say but probably true, some of these high schoolers got more skill than these grown men. (though that's not necessarily a good thing either). These grown dudes need to be more well rounded and not so narrow thinking when it comes to the opposite sex.  Don't no woman want a man with no sexual skills and who is too uptight to learn anything.  At least this woman doesn't. 

As for the virgin thing, well to each his/her own.  Some people for religious reasons want to retain their virginity and others for their own personal reasons.  Someone once wrote that virginity is valued more by the person who has it rather than the person who receives it.  We're no longer living back in the day when virginity was used as a commodity that was bartered to the highest bidder.  The emphasis now is on the value of the relationship and the connection between the two people.

[Bambi eyes]

LOL, this thread has me thinking someone should start a website that allows posters to list the name, city, state, and description of their offending nice guys and exactly what their dysfunction is so that nice girls can all beware... I bet if this knowledge went public, they'd get real busy with those instructional videos lickety split!  Shoot, might start a whole new trend... a whole wall set aside in Blockbuster  just for these type of DVD's and people could get rich off of  making "Sex How To's"... gotta add that to my list of possible entrepreneurial pursuits... get rich off the non functioning, or sexually dysfunctional nice guys.    Hmmmm....

[cool breeze]

lol..Bambi stop stealing my ideas..

[Bambi eyes]

lol..Bambi stop stealing my ideas..

Coolbreeze, we can share the patent and the profits on this one...looks like there would be more than enough money for us both to  be driving Bentley's http://www.bentleymotors.com/models/arnage_series/brooklands/introduction/default.aspx
when we're done.  LOL!

[devineone]

Coolbreeze, we can share the patent and the profits on this one...looks like there would be more than enough money for us both to  be driving Bentley's

I saw a bentley years ago once in person.  I know it's a bentley and all that but I personally find it an eye sore.  Not a very attractive car at least on the exterior.  Sort of like Volvos are good cars, but they are ugly to me.  But hey Bambi, I wouldn't turn down a ride in one if you owned one. 

[Bambi eyes]

I saw a bentley years ago once in person.  I know it's a bentley and all that but I personally find it an eye sore.  Not a very attractive car at least on the exterior.  Sort of like Volvos are good cars, but they are ugly to me.  But hey Bambi, I wouldn't turn down a ride in one if you owned one. 

You know I wasn't impressed with them either although the Brookland  model is supposed to be one that will be a classic because only a small amount of them are going to be produced.  I saw on a TV show how it took 660 man hours to build just one of those cars they pay so much attention to detail.  I only mentioned it because everyone knows that's considered a car only the very well off are able to afford and since me and CB are going to get rich off the nice guys, well...   Hahahaha

[JustAGuess]

My take on all of this is that there appears to be at least two types of "Nice Guys (NG)".

There is the NG that is described in the OP. This type of guy is not in my opinion the type of guy I describe as a NG, he just comes across as a bit "Nerdy and inexperience". And I would would be very surprised if that many "women" would even look at such a guy from inception. I say that because his so-called NG attitude or image is so clear from inception and I would have thought that most people just would not find him that attractive.

Add to that a large dose of inexperience, insecurity and various put downs and this sort of guy is probably still hiding under his mother's appron in the kitchen.

But the other sort of NG I see and hear about, appears to be a guy who is not shy, if anything, anything but. He often though is a man who maybe a bit "too" confused with his PC role, is possibly a bit "too" in touch with his X Chromosones and is often more passive and defensive as opposed to a drama seeker and or aggressive.

This sort of guy is often on the surface attractive to most women, especially those who have been out with "b@stard bad boys (BBB)" in the past, but his biggest failing is not that he is boring, nor hopeless in bed; it is often he makes the "silly mistake" of believing that because he is not like a BBB, that his girlfriend will appreciate him more (and should be greatful he is such a nice guy compared to Johnny Thug) and as such he is stunned when the opposite happens.

This in turn makes him ask himself, WHY. Often because of his inability to understand why such a woman would reject his more gentle nature, his ego is bruised and his soul is wounded, thus resulting in him complaining, that all "women are b!tches" and only go out with or deserve BBB.

The funny things is, that in my experience, once a woman has dated at least three BBB, it is rare for her to recover from the emotional and psychological damage impacted upon her and thus it becomes harder for her to both respond and respect a man who does not behave like the men of her past. This is not as I use to naively think because they are stupid (though their behaviour often is) but because they aften react and respond better to people and situations that they have become familar with.

This is further reflected later in life when I meet women in their late 30's and mid 40's that are crying out for good men.. and I quote below a snippet from a letter I had recently from a female buddy who at last has found love..

I just discovered, within the past four weeks, that a man I knew for a while was what I had always pictured for myself, and I wasn't paying attention because he didn't seem exciting or flashy. He's respectful and emotionally stable, no crazy roller coaster that crashes hard.

This woman's words speaks volumes, for although she still learning about life, after years of chasing after BBB, she wakes up to what is right in front of her.. again, this 2nd type of so called NG is often the guy reflected here in this woman's story.. He is man who does not need to be broken in or tamed.. he may not make your girlfriends go WOW (and then they lust after him behind your back) - he won't need to "keep you in your place" and when he brings you flowers and chocs, its to say I love you, not to say I'm sorry.