Does "Nice Guy" = sexually inexperienced?

[devineone]

My take on all of this is that there appears to be at least two types of "Nice Guys (NG)".
There is the NG that is described in the OP. This type of guy is not in my opinion the type of guy I describe as a NG, he just comes across as a bit "Nerdy and inexperience". I say that because his so-called NG attitude or image is so clear from inception and I would have thought that most people just would not find him that attractive.

Very insightful thought provoking post JAG and well stated. 
IMO just like people’s body types don’t always fit neatly into one category or the other, I think that people’s personality/character traits don’t always fit neatly into one category or the other.  In this case nice guys vs. nerdy guys.  I think that guys can display various behaviors that can cross into different categories.  There are some bad guys that aren’t all bad in their interactions with women and some nerdy guys who display the traits you described in your second NG description and even certain bad boy traits. 

It’s not always cut and dried or obvious and sometimes one doesn’t find out about certain aspects of their personality until they spend time with them and actually interact with them in a particular way and then that trait comes out. People spend a lot of time hiding behind a façade and projecting a certain image they’ve built as protective armor to suit certain purposes in their lives. Many a criminal have lurked behind a façade that fooled even trained law enforcement people.

[Ndgo]

.. again, this 2nd type of so called NG is often the guy reflected here in this woman's story.. He is man who does not need to be broken in or tamed.. he may not make your girlfriends go WOW (and then they lust after him behind your back) - he won't need to "keep you in your place" and when he brings you flowers and chocs, its to say I love you, not to say I'm sorry.

As long as he's not boring or annoying, he's not the one getting dissed or dismissed...

What I'm saying is that women shouldn't have to compromise and settle for a man that's doesn't possess passions, dreams and skills enough to ignite a woman's body, heart, soul AND mind.

And yeah... with every "nice guy" that I found... my friends STILL lusted over the man.... They knew the quality and cailiber of a man it took to keep me interested... Nice does not have to mean dead. It doesn't mean that the guy can sit back and just be there... You still have to WORK to make relationships successful. THAT MEANS, nice guys have to get enough of a life so that women long to be a part of it.

[Ndgo]

And another thing... why are these women sleeping or sexing all these boring duds anyway.... That's what I want to know!  Now you can't tell me that these women didn't know beforehand that these guys just didn't possess any mojo....

All I got to say it that... I know when to leave a man just standing there... all alone...  C'mon now... it's not that hard to figure out... so there are some parts of these thread that I just cannot relate to. These are the sorts of guys that should never even get to 1st base with a real woman let alone be allowed to feast on her cookies... no way!  It's just icky!  I was never into doing that kind of charity work... lol...

[Ndgo]

I know that rejection hurts, but everybody gets rejected..It ain't just you, Nice Guy..But if you're going to roll up to Ndgo, you better have bullet proof game..

lol... seriously, it's too true... they had better be prepared IN ADVANCE... I've always just been that way though.

[devineone]

And another thing... why are these women sleeping or sexing all these boring duds anyway.... That's what I want to know!  Now you can't tell me that these women didn't know beforehand that these guys just didn't possess any mojo....
All I got to say it that... I know when to leave a man just standing there... all alone...  C'mon now... it's not that hard to figure out... so there are some parts of these thread that I just cannot relate to. These are the sorts of guys that should never even get to 1st base with a real woman let alone be allowed to feast on her cookies... no way!  It's just icky!  I was never into doing that kind of charity work... lol...

LOL at Ndgo, you really have strong feelings about this subject. No guy better step towards you unless he has it all together in every area.  Your antennae can pick that up quickly. In my case, I wouldn't say that the two"nice guys' I was involved with in the past were losers, who were tied to their mother's apron strings or even nerdy as described by JAG, they just didn't have their "technique' down and were rather inhibited.  They could definitely use some work on their "mojo" for sure.   They had other attractive qualities that drew me and I didn't know about the other area until way later in the relationship.  I wouldn't even call them boring far from it.  I think perhaps the image that you guys have in mind is different from what I've encountered. 

One of my friends and I were talking about this and she had some interesting insights to share on this subject.  She said that if a guy came into her life and he had attractive qualities that drew her in, he was great to her and her two kids, and he had his act together i.e. finances, emotionally mature, reasonably healthy etc... even if he wasn't great in bed, if his 'mojo' was off, she would still work with him because he had so many other qualities that she liked. She said that she'd be happy with sex once a month. So the benefits of being with a 'nice guy' is worth it even if he lacks mojo because he was meeting all of her other needs and she weighed that as being far more important.

So I guess one has to weigh what is important to them.  There probably are a lot of women with guys who don't have the 'sexual mojo' happening in the bedroom but they stay with their guy because of the other qualites he brings to the table. 

I have ambiguous feelings about that.  While I realize that a relationship is not built on sex alone, for me it is an important component and I'm reluctant to compromise on sex for the sake of having a nice guy but one who lacks the "mojo' to satisfy me physically.  Having gone through that, I'm not interested in going that route anymore.  However it's more common than not for women and men to be with sexually incompatible partners.  I'm sure the relationship suffers but to what degree depends on the parties involved. Maybe the people involved have an understanding. I guess it also depends on where one is in their life and what one's goals are.  A 22 year old woman will most likely not put up long term with a guy who lacks the mojo to satisfy her in the boudoir. A 32 year old woman most likely won't either, but she might.  A woman in her 40's and beyond may deal with it.  It all depends.

[Ndgo]

I think I've posted this previously, but maybe some of the newer members haven't had a chance to be introduced to the male Bower bird.... Here's the quick and dirty from wikipedia:

The most notable characteristic of bowerbirds is the extraordinarily complex behaviour of males, which is to build a bower to attract mates. Depending on the species, the bower ranges from a circle of cleared earth with a small pile of twigs in the center to a complex and highly decorated structure of sticks and leaves — usually shaped like a walkway, a small hut or a maypole — into and around which the male places a variety of objects he has collected. These objects — usually of a hue to which the male in question is particularly attracted — may include hundreds of shells, leaves, flowers, feathers, stones, berries, and even discarded plastic items or pieces of glass. The bird spends hours carefully sorting and arranging his collection, with each object in a specific place; if an object is moved while the bowerbird is away he will put it back in its place. No two bowers are the same, and the collection of objects reflects the personal taste of each bird and its ability to procure unusual and rare items (going as far as stealing them from neighboring bowers). At mating time, the female will go from bower to bower, watching as the male owner conducts an often elaborate mating ritual and inspecting the quality of the bower. Many females end up selecting the same male, and many under-performing males are left without mates.

These male birds carefully decorate their pads with items they think will attract females. They WORK at studying females to see what appeals to them and then they take that knowlege and apply it back at their nest or they use the information to spruce up their mating dances... male birds that just do nothing... get nothing...

The successful male birds LEARN what females want...

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/nature/episodes/what-females-want/video-bower-birds-love-blue-booty/841/

[devineone]

They WORK at studying females to see what appeals to them and then they take that knowlege and apply it back at their nest or they use the information to spruce up their mating dances... male birds that just do nothing... get nothing...
The successful male birds LEARN what females want...
http://www.pbs.org/wnet/nature/episodes/what-females-want/video-bower-birds-love-blue-booty/841/

Point well taken Ndgo. I'll be sharing this with my friends Our new code word for the keeper males will be 'bower'.   For the non keepers, it will be 'bow-out" or maybe bow-wow' "Male Bower birds"

[Legacy]

aka the "sex is more important than character, inner beauty, intelligence", "females are just as superficial as men", and "y it's usually an excuse to dog out men when I get dogged out because the real issue is my criteria for selecting men" post.



GOT DAYUM....


http://i25.tinypic.com/2hwfn9k.gif

[devineone]

AKA as "Legacy's logic' and Legacy being hypocritical.  Why does it have to be a choice of one or the other?  Are you saying that a woman has to put up with a guy with no skills in the boudoir because of his other qualities?  She has to choose one or the other?  But hold up.  What a minute.. Aren't you the guy who in that Obesity thread refused to 'settle' for a woman of sterling qualities if she was lacking in the looks department?  So it's a double standard huh? Women are being shallow when they want a mutually healthy sexual relationship with their SO, but you Legacy are not being shallow when you refuse to settle for a woman who may not 'wow' in the looks department but yet she has other qualities she brings to the table.  

You never would just come out and give a clear cut answer to the question of looks vs the "other qualities' a woman brings to the table and which is more valuable?  Yet you up in here criticizing women who value a healthy sexual relationship with their SO and who see that as an important component in a successful relationship in addition to the other qualities that 'nice guys' brings to the table.  It shouldn't even be an 'addition', it should be just part of the package.  

But that's the problem.  NG's can be mediocre in that area and expect women to put up with it, and sadly a lot of women do and there goes the incentive for guys to be a man in "ALL the areas that make for a successful relationship. I see how it is.   Again "Legacy logic",  You can't criticize other folks for what you yourself believe. Wonder what makes you take this stance? 

The question is not whether people want attractive partners, but what level of importance is put on the outward attractiveness of a person vs. the inner attractiveness...So... again, Starchild and now Legacy (since you chimed in ) Is physical attraction more important to you than attraction to the soul and spirit of a person?

C'mon y'all.. this is the real world. People want attractive partners, period. You're not attracted to everything & if someone is not attractive to you, no amount of "she's got a good spirit" is gonna make up for that. Like Eddie Murphy said,.." I don't want a funny ugly b@!#$.. I'd be covering my eyes during sex saying why don't you tell me some more jokes!"

There *IS* no separating it. It's like asking me if I want my heart or my lungs. UHM, BOTH PLEASE? You know, some shyt is systemic. You can't have a living human being w/o a brain, heart, lungs, blood, etc. In short, an acceptably attractive, intelligent & personable woman.
I don't want a pretty woman who has a horrible personality (other things aside). I don't want a ugly woman who has a great personality (other things aside). I choose NEITHER long term, period. However, short term.. uh.. dime please..

But if you could get a perfect 10 with a good attitude and a respectful IQ would you take her over say a 5 with a high IQ and great attitude?

All day... because as long as the attitude & IQ are acceptable, the tie-breaker is looks. All 3 areas have to be acceptable. This ain't no cumulative GPA shyt. Give me a B in 6 classes instead of 3 As, 2 Bs & an E. She can't be flunking IQ 101, Intro to Good Attitudes or Basic   Good Looks..

[cool breeze]

However, short term.. uh.. dime please..

@Legacy..Man, you know that both men and women can be as superficial as hell..You know how many times women rejected me because I was wearing the wrong shoes? Apparently, shoes make the man--for some women at least..

Also like a lot of cats, I've been hood-winked by a pretty face and a curvy frame--believing that a pretty package outside meant a decent person inside..Sometimes, the most horrible people are the most fantastic looking physical specimens walking around..But I've learned that more times often than not a person's looks are pure luck..It's rare to hear about someone male or female actually working to attain physical perfection(outside of LA anyway where you can save up enough cash to get anything done to your body)..

But the truth of the matter is that I don't begrudge women for dating "bad boys", I just say that they should stop acting like victims when things go south with said bad boy..Men approach, women choose..Bad boys represent dangerous fun and excitement for a lot of women..Also, apparently the bad boys are rocking the ladies' world in the bedroom as well..So, the women are having fun dating men that are exciting and good in bed..Now, tell me that a man isn't looking for the same thing? That a man isn't looking for a fine, exciting woman that's good in bed?

Nice guys need to realize that in reality there are plenty of fish in the ocean..Find out what kind of bait it takes to catch your fish and start fishing..If a woman wants an exciting man that's good in bed, really the bare minimum, but if that's not you--there are plenty of women who will tell you upfront that sex ain't the be all end all for them..They also don't like too much excitement--they like that "Mayberry style" living..Find one that you can build a life with..But here's the rub: Finding or fishing for women requires that a man has to get off his azz and get outside and (gasp!!) meet and talk to women..

After all, women don't walk around wearing big signs that say: Hi. I'm single. I like cuban food,  moonlit strolls along the beach and hot butt naked sex after. But only with men who are exciting and dangerous and willing to be with one woman at a time. Call or e-mail me at... Unfortunately, you guys are gonna have to get out there and face the prospect of getting rejected by women..And you know what I say? (Cue evil, maniacal laugh)..

BWWAAHAHAHAHAHAH!!

It happened to me, it happens to all men, why are you guys so afraid? Why should you nice guys not taste the bitter nectar of defeat when so many others like you have? In fact, I got "shot down" last year.. I was out with these nerds at my job here last summer at a club..Almost all the men in the place were too busy trying to look cool or too busy getting plastered to dance with the women there..Women were dancing with each other mostly..I'm the married guy at the table, I should be the one sitting back and watching..But none of the single guys seem interested in doing anything other than chugging down Coronas..So, I decide that since it's a nightclub and they're playing music that I'm gonna dance..

So, I stroll over to a table with some young ladies and I ask a cute one if she would like to dance..She leans back and says to me,"How old are you?" I wait a half second and I say to her, "How much do you weigh?"..I walk away to another table and ask another young lady to dance..She accepts and we dance multiple times..Now, after I dance with some other women, even a couple of women who asked me to dance, I wander back to the table with my co-workers..Now, you'd think that they would have been impressed..I'm the old man of the bunch, yet I spent a good deal of the night on the dancefloor with some very attractive women..Nope..Not them..

They wanted to clown me about the first woman who "shot me down"..These guys that never left the table but they talk about how women "overlook" them.. I told them that the one young lady who shot me down played herself and just proved that being attractive doesn't mean that a person has manners or common sense..If someone asks you to dance and you don't want to dance with that person all you have to say is "No thank you"..Not act like some low budget Wanda Sykes impersonator..

Looking back, I still get a laugh about that night..It seems that some folks never mature beyond high school..By the way, I did run into the young lady who shot me down at a Chic Fil A one afternoon after I picked up my niece and nephew from school..She's a manager there and as I was leaving with my little wrecking crew she was like, "Don't I know you from somewhere?" I know it was wrong..This I know..But I gave her the "You must be out of your natural mind" look..You could see that she wasn't expecting that..

Yeah, I know it was petty..But it was so dayum funny..

[Ndgo]

So, I stroll over to a table with some young ladies and I ask a cute one if she would like to dance..She leans back and says to me,"How old are you?" I wait a half second and I say to her, "How much do you weigh?" 

Oh NO you didn't... rotflmao... lolololol... CB - I just had to do a quick drive by just to say, you just made my day with that one... lololol... too funny!

[devineone]

This thread asks why does nice guy= sexual inexperience?  Women DO want nice guys, but this shouldn’t mean that they should settle for nice guys who more often than not lack the ‘mojo’ that it takes to please a woman physically.  We’re not talking about high school guys here.  We’re talking about adult grown men who are educated, intelligent and otherwise successful.  We’re not even talking about the ‘bad guys’ as we've already established that these guys are not ideal mates and ultimately break women’s heart. (This is discussed at length in that other Topic thread Why Women choose bad guys...). 

I also think that a woman desiring sexual compatibility and sexual satisfaction with her SO is far from being "superficial".  Most relationship experts agree that having a mutually satisfying sexual relationship with your SO is an important component in a healthy relationship.  Any guy who puts little value on that and thinks it's  just 'superficial' is hardly a guy I'd call an ideal mate or even a 'nice guy' in the ways that count because he is inherently selfish.  He's looking at it from the standpoint of his SO should 'overlook' any existing sexual dysfunction and be satisfied with his other traits he brings to the table.  This is hardly the attitude of a caring SO.  A guy who really loves and cares for his partner WANT'S her to be happy and satisfied with him physically and he WORKS to make sure that she is so that the relationship can flourish in ALL aspects.
 
Why are the sexual traits that women find appealing and manly associated with ‘bad guys”?  Can’t nice guys be appealing and manly too without crossing over into “bad boy” territory? (Nice guy with the Edge). (And by appealing and manly I am not talking about “playa like behavior” that’s not appealing nor manly). The day NG’s figure that out, rather than just getting defensive, will be the day, NG’s will have it all over the bad guys.  Bad guys wouldn’t stand a chance.  What woman wouldn’t want a nice guy who had "mojo'and is capable of blowing his woman’s mind, body, emotions, and soul.

But as one poster stated, decide what fish you want to catch and go out and catch it.  If you know you lack the mojo, then catch your "Aunt Bea' type of fish.  To each his own everybody has the right to go for what pleases them.  I know I'm not "Aunt Bea" so I ain't remotely interested in "Andy Griffith" and that "Mayberry lifestyle' CB mentioned.   And I sure as heck ain't interested in no 'Urkle type". "Did I do thaaat".   Give me the Nice guy with the edge, who has 'mojo' any day. 

For me, sex is too important to be with someone with whom I'm not compatible.  I would just become more frustrated as time passes and I will come to resent being with someone with whom I'm making all of the concessions while not getting sexually satisfied because of his problems and issues.  That isn't fair to me. I've been down that road.  A relationship with sexual incompatibility is doomed to fail because sooner or later, one of the partners will either step outside the relationship to seek satisfaction or if it's a dealbreaker, they'd break up with their partner altogether. (It ended up being a dealbreaker for me). 

I realize that sex isn't the be all end all to the success of a relationship, but I've learned that it is a critical and important component at least for me. This doesn't translate into me running after 'bad boy's to get some 'exciting sex', I never found that appealing either.  Now it just makes me very discerning and discriminating with whom I share my body with and I’m not interested in sharing it with a guy who does not know what to do with it.
I want the "Bower Male", not the "bow-outs", those guys who just want to 'bow out" of doing what they need to do to step up.  Fortunately those experiences are in my past.  My present is looking much brighter.

[devineone]

Now, tell me that a man isn't looking for the same thing? That a man isn't looking for a fine, exciting woman that's good in bed?

They ARE looking for that, even the 'nice guys'.  Nice guys/nerdy guys aren't looking for women who share their personality traits.  They are looking for just what you said CB.  Legacy knows it.  Just look at the many pictures he's posted of the various women he fantasizes about.  Yet he trusts to call women 'superficial'

Nice guys need to realize that in reality there are plenty of fish in the ocean..Find out what kind of bait it takes to catch your fish and start fishing..If a woman wants an exciting man that's good in bed, really the bare minimum, but if that's not you--there are plenty of women who will tell you upfront that sex ain't the be all end all for them..They also don't like too much excitement--they like that "Mayberry style" living..Find one that you can build a life with

I suspect CB that if a woman told a NG upfront that sex isn't the be all end all to her and that it really is no big deal, even if he lacked the experience' in the boudoir, he would be turned off.  Guys want what they want while expecting the woman to 'settle'. Hence Legacy's remarks.
_{Disclaimer: Just because a woman is good in bed doesn't automatically translate into her being a "Samantha type" from Sex in the City'}. 

[Legacy]

So it's a double standard huh? Women are being shallow when they want a mutually healthy sexual relationship with their SO, but you Legacy are not being shallow when you refuse to settle for a woman who may not 'wow' in the looks department but yet she has other qualities she brings to the table.   

 

What double standard? Do you understand the definition of that phrase? It would only be a double standard if I claimed that women were superficial & that men weren't. I never said that men didn't want attractive partners, good sex, etc. In fact, I plainly said people DO want attractive partners. However, y'all *complete w/a poorly executed southern drawl* were trying to argue in that very thread that women are LESS superficial & more willing to look @ "inner beauty"

Uh, I call bullshyt unless inner means in them guts..  - LOL

Nice guy to me implies the most important qualities of a good partner & the basis for a solid relationship. He's probably respectful, well-mannered, even-tempered, & good natured. However, since he can't bang you like a pornstar, you'll pass. In fact, I had a conversation about a friend's relative who did just that. She had a man who was helping with the bills, treated her well, etc but decided to dump him for an ex-convict who was a terrible partner. When her daughter asked her why in  the hell she did that, she told her daughter "because he can f#@$ me right".. I'm just sayin fam...


So basically some women (not all but SURELY some) are willing to OVERLOOK the qualities that make a man a "nice guy" in favor of a man's sexual prowess.

Now when that's the case, don't come crying to me about a man dogging you out when those other qualities weren't important to you when you chose the man. And because we know this to be true, can we please get off this bullshyt that woman are somehow less superficial & are looking on the inside.

FOH....

However, short term.. uh.. dime please..

@Legacy..Man, you know that both men and women can be as superficial as hell..You know how many times women rejected me because I was wearing the wrong shoes? Apparently, shoes make the man--for some women at least..

I know we can all be superficial except I ain't lying about it. Let a man roll up in a Lexus, BMW or Beamer & most women can care less what kind of character the man has.

[devineone]

"legacy logic'  Whatever... This would be the guy labeled. "bow-out".   NEXT!  And you are being hypocritical because when asked to choose between looks and other qualities, you didn't come out make that choice.  You know it too so stop lying. You can read your own quotes. You prefer "looks" over other sterling qualities someone brings to the table, you said this in the quotes.  Own up to what you say, it's "write' there.

Where in my posts did I say that I wanted sex with a bad guy/playa or an ex-con?  Point this out to me.  Point out where in my post did I want sex with a guy who would dog me out so I could then play the victim and start crying?  Again the "made up' arguments, with no regard to what is actually being said in my post.

And let a one of those women you fantasize about roll up on you and you aren't caring about what type of character she has.  BTW, I've owned a lexus before and sold it when I moved to NYC.